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Old 02-04-2022, 08:57 AM
 
8,181 posts, read 2,801,060 times
Reputation: 6016

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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCresident2014 View Post
I would love that. I save for retirement and purchase my own healthcare, so will never in my life have a need for those services. Anybody who takes personal responsibility for themselves will never need those services.

If instead of taking social security taxes out of your paycheck, they put it in your 401(k) and automatically invested it in the S&P 500, you'd have twice as much money available to you at retirement than you'll get through the social security system.
Twice? No. 3x. I actually did this math. At 12.4% and dollar cost averaged into the S&P500, future expected cash flows from your portfolio at a 4% withdrawal rate would replace your lifetime average annual income in its entirety in about 35 years. What's your SS payout after 35 years? A third of your income?

And unlike Social Security, your 401(k) is yours. So you still have principal to play with.

Last edited by albert648; 02-04-2022 at 09:06 AM..

 
Old 02-04-2022, 08:58 AM
 
4,038 posts, read 1,887,398 times
Reputation: 8686
yep, lots of these replies can be summed up simply: "I'd like something for nothing, please."


The specifics have changed over the millennia - but the sentiment always had a strong support base. Now the base has a platform (the internet, these past 25 years) - so they think it's "new."
 
Old 02-04-2022, 10:40 AM
 
Location: Ohio
1,884 posts, read 1,006,409 times
Reputation: 2871
Quote:
Originally Posted by roodd279 View Post
yep, lots of these replies can be summed up simply: "I'd like something for nothing, please."


The specifics have changed over the millennia - but the sentiment always had a strong support base. Now the base has a platform (the internet, these past 25 years) - so they think it's "new."
We just want what we could've collectively bargained for fairly had if the law/government/media didn't give the corporate side an entire arsenal, leaving us to fight back with a PVC pipe.

Strengthen/reinstate the right to collectively bargain and strike. Otherwise you have unsustainable crony capitalism, not a free market with workers involved in the discussion. Free market for thee, not for me.
 
Old 02-04-2022, 11:35 AM
 
Location: Free From The Oppressive State
30,306 posts, read 23,784,547 times
Reputation: 38779
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCresident2014 View Post
I'm in my 30's and while I don't have anything to gauge it against, the level of division at this point seems untenable. It feels like a married couple that is "staying together for the kids" but constantly down each other's throats. As is the case with the married couples who hate each other, it seems like it might be better for an amicable divorce, through proper channels.

All of the tyranny and disruption that the left promised would happen under Trump, didn't, but now that the left is in power they are trying to control every aspect of our lives down to the medicines we take and what we wear over our oxygen holes. The right doesn't like high taxes or social spending, likes personal freedom and wants secure borders. The left loves taxes, loves spending, hates personal decision-making, doesn't like punishing criminals, and wants open borders.

Why not amicably split into two countries, each being governed in the way in which it sees fit? That would probably take 10-20 years to accomplish but if not now, when.
Everything you're seeing is straight out of the Communist handbook.

Lefties like to pretend that they want 'Democratic Socialism', which is like putting a pretty cover on a crappy book. It's Socialism, and it leads to Communism. Yes, they know that. They are lying to you that 'it's not the same thing, OMG, you don't know what socialism even is'...yes, we do. We have plenty of history to show us EXACTLY what it is.

They've been advocating for Communism for years. Way back 22 years ago, especially on the west coast, they were out there with their tables, their Communism pamphlets, and tried to appeal to your emotions about how 'unfair' everything was. When they realized that wasn't selling, they pretended it was just 'Socialism. You know, like Denmark or Norway! Those people are doing great! We should be like them! That's 'all' we want!"

ORLY?

Is Norway 'socialist'? NO! They are actually capitalist, have a 'socialist' type of 'welfare', but everyone...every. single. person. pays into it, not just 'the rich'. Every one. Even the poor people who will be getting that welfare, they also pay into it.

They screech for $15/hr!!! "We must force a 'livable wage', and the government needs to do that!"

Guess what Norway does NOT have! A government mandated 'livable wage' minimum wage.

It's like no one remembers what happened in Venezuela.

They started out by dividing the people. They divided the classes, and they divided the races, as the Marxists, (aka 'progressives') have been doing, and are still doing.

They toppled statues, just like you have seen the Marxists do here, and continue to do.

They stole from the wealthy in the name of 'equality'. Just like the Marxists have been bleating about, and continue to bleat about, here.

Chavez didn't start out portraying his insane ideologies - he pretended to be someone more in between - like an Independent.

They disarmed their citizens, just like the Marxists have tried, and continue to try to do now, yo know, because they 'care' about 'gun violence', although they don't care about burning businesses down, attacking people, and destroying several blocks in cities. Yeah, they just care so damn much about people.

Which, by the way, is another sign of a Marxist pos. They don't actually care about anyone. They SAY they do, but everything they want hurts people.

Regulations up the arse making it difficult for some businesses to even DO business in certain states. (ie; CA) Claiming that illegal immigration is 'good', never caring one bit about how poorly those illegals are treated in some jobs, don't care that they don't make even the minimum wage, let alone their stupid $15/hr that they are wailing about. Support organizations like BLM that do absolutely ZERO for black communities. Raising taxes that always, always, always affect the poor more than anyone else, because they 'care' about the poor. Concentrating on race, pretending black people need their help as if black folks can't do a thing on their own, claiming black folks can't get an ID, only hiring 'people of color' as if those people couldn't get in on their own merits, etc, etc, etc, because they 'care' about 'black and brown people'.

No, they don't. They USE those people.

During Covid - who was hurt? Small businesses. Guess what? The same damn thing happened in Venezuela...right before it all hit the fan.

You've got 'moderate' Biden, (who is clearly not running the show) trying to mandate just about everyone to get the 'vaccines' via government, then when that didn't work, via OSHA, but conveniently leaves out the illegal aliens they are shipping all over the country, in the dark of night, hoping no one would find out.

What else happened during Covid? OH! They attacked religion, which they've been doing for decades. Can't go to church, even in a parking lot, staying in your own cars, but liquor store? GO RIGHT ON IN! Wally World? No problem, flood that store with people. Church? HELL NO! Arrest that pastor!

Guess what happened in Venezuela before the ish hit the fan? They attacked religious leaders.

Remember when Venezuela totally fell? There were videos of money all along the sides of the roads because the money was worthless.

What is happening under Biden? They are printing ridiculous amounts of money, backed by absolutely nothing, which will devalue that dollar down to, eventually, nothing.

When you did go to a store during early Covid, you had to stand in a line at those big box stores, with your 'I fell for this sh..." mask on. Need food? Toiletries? Stand in line.

Oh! Just like Venezuela.

Hurray for bread lines!

It's been how many months, and our supply chain is still disrupted? And it's getting worse every single month? I've been doing shops for many people over the last 6 months. It started out small. A few things not being replenished very fast. Since that time? The shelves are becoming emptier and emptier, products not being replaced for quite some time.

Are the 'leaders' really that stupid, or are they doing it on purpose? Meanwhile, Nancy wants to show off her ice cream drawer - because she, and all the others, are not suffering.

How is it that people can't see what is right in front of their eyes?

I don't care what some Marxist says on here, of course they will deny everything, because they are Marxists.

But how do Republicans, Independents, and moderate Dems NOT see this?!

You can't just wait for a big thing to happen, you need to add up all of those small things you see happening.

That's another thing that Marxists like to do, trivialize all those little things you see happening. 'That's not a big deal, it's just....blah blah blah".

No, it's not, when you put them all together. It's not 'no big deal' nor 'it's just...' at. all.

Farmers are coming out to warn of shortages - and yet people still want to argue about the dumbest of things.

Sit in your recliners and pretend 'that will never happen to the U.S.' - live in your fantasy world, because they've been pushing for it, continue to push for it, and one day, you're going to wake up asking the forever stupid question: 'How did we get here?'

Once you allow that kind of control, it will take immense sacrifice to ever 'get back to normal'.

We can keep pretending everything is fine, just a few bumps along the way, or we can stare reality in its face and put a stop to the BS that is playing out in front of you.
 
Old 02-04-2022, 02:21 PM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
37,176 posts, read 19,255,826 times
Reputation: 14922
Quote:
Originally Posted by Three Wolves In Snow View Post
Everything you're seeing is straight out of the Communist handbook.

Lefties like to pretend that they want 'Democratic Socialism', which is like putting a pretty cover on a crappy book. It's Socialism, and it leads to Communism. Yes, they know that. They are lying to you that 'it's not the same thing, OMG, you don't know what socialism even is'...yes, we do. We have plenty of history to show us EXACTLY what it is.

They've been advocating for Communism for years. Way back 22 years ago, especially on the west coast, they were out there with their tables, their Communism pamphlets, and tried to appeal to your emotions about how 'unfair' everything was. When they realized that wasn't selling, they pretended it was just 'Socialism. You know, like Denmark or Norway! Those people are doing great! We should be like them! That's 'all' we want!"

Is Norway 'socialist'? NO! They are actually capitalist, have a 'socialist' type of 'welfare', but everyone...every. single. person. pays into it, not just 'the rich'. Every one. Even the poor people who will be getting that welfare, they also pay into it.

Oh! Just like Venezuela.

.
Democratic Socialism is Capitalism that is regulated to work for the benefit of all citizens rather than a privileged few. Operative word "regulated". This means that a half dozen people don't own as much as half of the entire country.

Marxist Socialism and Communism are not the same thing, nor does either one have anything to do with Democratic Socialism.
 
Old 02-04-2022, 02:23 PM
 
4,038 posts, read 4,476,224 times
Reputation: 1891
Pray and repent. de hel is eeuwig.
 
Old 02-04-2022, 02:41 PM
 
8,181 posts, read 2,801,060 times
Reputation: 6016
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuebald View Post
Democratic Socialism is Capitalism that is regulated to work for the benefit of all citizens rather than a privileged few. Operative word "regulated". This means that a half dozen people don't own as much as half of the entire country.

Marxist Socialism and Communism are not the same thing, nor does either one have anything to do with Democratic Socialism.
Hilarious. The bolded is impossible. Democratic socialism or whatever you want to call it goes against the fundamentals of human nature.

Democratic Socialism consolidates power in the hands of the entity that does the regulating. Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely, and centralized power corrupts centrally. If you want less corruption, decentralize power.
 
Old 02-04-2022, 03:16 PM
 
Location: Ohio
1,884 posts, read 1,006,409 times
Reputation: 2871
Quote:
Originally Posted by albert648 View Post
Hilarious. The bolded is impossible. Democratic socialism or whatever you want to call it goes against the fundamentals of human nature.

Democratic Socialism consolidates power in the hands of the entity that does the regulating. Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely, and centralized power corrupts centrally. If you want less corruption, decentralize power.
Unless you are a true defund-the-police anarchist, that's just a lot of fluff talk. There will always be power struggles, god forbid we try to make it more democratic and throw a few bones to essential workers running our society at the expense of well-established parasites. Like it or not, capitalism results in absurd amounts of power accumulation too, regardless of any idealized free market fantasy. What's your "natural" solution to this? History books point to revolutions and class warfare, is that natural enough for you?
 
Old 02-04-2022, 03:18 PM
 
8,181 posts, read 2,801,060 times
Reputation: 6016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haksel257 View Post
Unless you are a true defund-the-police anarchist, that's just a lot of fluff talk. There will always be power struggles, god forbid we try to make it more democratic and throw a few bones to essential workers running our society at the expense of well-established parasites. Like it or not, capitalism results in absurd amounts of power accumulation too, regardless of any idealized free market fantasy. What's your "natural" solution to this? History books point to revolutions and class warfare, is that natural enough for you?
Those monopolies were created by Government. Why do you think big tech is crying out for regulation? It protects them from the competition.

Government has never been, is not, and will never be the solution to anything. Government IS THE PROBLEM. The only thing consistent in regards to the Government's performance at what you described is its consistent track record of failure.

And back to your essential worker point - all workers are essential. End of Discussion. The idea that some distant overpaid bureaucrat who routinely incinerates value arbitrarily deciding that your job is "not essential" is somehow a better decision making model than the free market is patently ridiculous.

Last edited by albert648; 02-04-2022 at 03:32 PM..
 
Old 02-04-2022, 03:41 PM
 
Location: Annandale, VA
7,029 posts, read 2,730,024 times
Reputation: 7197
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoAmericaGo View Post
I’m in my 30s….think many people want marijuana legalized, free healthcare, free college, affordable housing, etc.
You can work towards that AFTER you pay off the $30T in debt already on the books.
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