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Old 02-13-2022, 03:54 PM
 
Location: western East Roman Empire
9,415 posts, read 14,366,224 times
Reputation: 10177

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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
What "two competing ideologies?"
You mean US and Russia?

So there is no clash of ideologies here.
You took these words right out of my mouth. Can’t rep you more at the moment.

I remember several years ago Mr Putin quoted as saying, in translation of course, that today’s Russia has no particular ideology to sell.

This is a geopolitical game for the US, which has little to loose by stoking the flames here, and a struggle for survival for Russia.

In this game, no matter how it turns out, the biggest losers are Ukrainians. The Western Europeans are next in line with the most to loose. Russia too looses if it shows more weakness, but could maintain its precarious status quo if it stands firm. Highly unlikely that Russia will invade Ukraine willy nilly, maybe just Donbass, and no way in hell that it would seriously threaten a NATO country. Seems like the US is inviting, nay, begging the Russians to do something militarily in at least eastern Ukraine, or anything as an excuse to impose more sanctions that would hurt whom the most exactly?

In any case, lurking in the background with potentially the most to gain are ...no extra credit for guessing who.

Good Luck!
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Old 02-13-2022, 03:55 PM
 
2,557 posts, read 1,329,358 times
Reputation: 1684
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocko20 View Post
You literally answered your own question.

An inspiring world power always picks the low hanging fruit first.
Why would Putin need this low-hanging fruit?

He can call an African leader and tell him, "Do you know about the Ukraine? Its leaders were pro-Western, and they stole everything to make the country poor. Let's trade: we have cheap planes and equipment; you have diamonds and ebony."
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Old 02-13-2022, 03:57 PM
 
26,843 posts, read 22,665,634 times
Reputation: 10055
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
I am growing suspicious ( which is terrible to say) that it's the US that will try to provoke Russia's attack in Ukraine.

Or rather that it's giving the red light to such provocation as we speak.

Check on the LDNR.

Sorry, GREEN light.


But this is going to be seen within the next few days, judging by what the LDNR are reporting at this point about the situation on their border.
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Old 02-13-2022, 04:39 PM
 
7,420 posts, read 2,721,567 times
Reputation: 7783
Quote:
Originally Posted by westcoastforme View Post
What exactly is this war going to be over? Land?
What this is about is the sovereignty and self-determination of Ukraine and all nations. It’s about Russia’s rejection of a post-Cold War Europe that is whole, free, and at peace.

This issue is all the doing of Vladimir Putin and The Kremlin. Russia continues to turn away from agreements that have kept the peace across the European continent for decades. And it continues to fixate on and threaten NATO--- a defensive, voluntary alliance that protects nearly a billion people across Europe and North America--- and threaten the governing principles of international peace and security that all the countries have a stake in defending.

Those doctrines & principles, that were established after 2 world wars and a long cold war, state one country does not have the right to change the borders of another by force. One country is not permitted to dictate to another the policies it wants or the choices it makes, including with whom to associate or join. And one country cannot make efforts and take actions to dominate and crush its neighbor nations.

World leaders agree "To allow Russia to violate those principles with impunity would drag us all back to a much more dangerous and unstable time, when the continent and Berlin were divided in two, separated by no man’s lands, patrolled by soldiers, with the threat of all-out war hanging over everyone’s heads. It would also send a message to others around the world that these principles are expendable, and that, too, would have catastrophic results."

The United States and our allies and partners in Europe are focused on what’s happening in Ukraine because it's bigger than a conflict between two countries. It’s bigger than Russia and NATO. It’s a crisis with global consequences, and it requires global attention and action. Russia threatening to invade Ukraine is not a liberal amped up issue and the USA is not the aggressor as some on this thread have suggested with their mimicking of the prolific propaganda pushed by the adversaries of America and the enemies of our western European allies.

In good faith the USA and our NATO allies have diplomatically been trying to address the continued and escalating "claims" Russia makes. Putin has not engaged in good faith, because his claims about weapons and bases are not genuine and the his false assertions are not the underlying reasons for the Kremlin's menacing manipulations and machinations.

What this is about is the sovereignty and self-determination of Ukraine and all nations. It’s about Russia’s rejection of a post-Cold War Europe that is whole, free, and at peace.

Last edited by corpgypsy; 02-13-2022 at 05:03 PM..
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Old 02-13-2022, 04:59 PM
 
2,557 posts, read 1,329,358 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corpgypsy View Post
What this is about is the sovereignty and self-determination of Ukraine and all nations.
Do you know that the Ukraine occupies the territory of Polish Galicia with its capital Lemberg (Lviv)?

Most people in Lemberg want sovereignty and independence from the Ukraine. Millions of people from Galicia have already moved to Poland to join motherland. They will unanimously vote for independence. But independence is not allowed by NATO.

Recently, NATO forces crashed the independence movement in Barcelona.
Also, Scotland and Ireland are still occupied by the British.
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Old 02-13-2022, 05:09 PM
 
Location: Wisco Disco
2,174 posts, read 1,233,154 times
Reputation: 3066
Meanwhile, back at the OP ... borderline efficiency. linear border length to defend from unfriendlies reduced and sovereign area increased. Overall national Ratio reduced, acquisition cost not certain. If it works for cheap it might be duplicated in other partially occupied areas. Stay tuned.
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Old 02-13-2022, 05:52 PM
 
8,399 posts, read 4,397,027 times
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Ukraine is a large country between the west (Europe) and the East (Russia). The west is encouraging Ukraine to join NATO and benefit from free enterprise. Putin is concerned that the resulting prosperity in his front yard will be seen buy his oppressed citizens and cause problems for him, undermining his control.
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Old 02-13-2022, 05:56 PM
 
78,711 posts, read 60,905,430 times
Reputation: 50013
Quote:
Originally Posted by tijlover View Post
Putin's popularity in Russia has been waning, he's low in the polls, so! Let's start a war, even tho' Russians are opposed to a war with the Ukraine!
Source?

For so many reasons I would question any internal Russian polls lol.
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Old 02-13-2022, 06:04 PM
 
Location: Some Airport Transit Zone
2,776 posts, read 1,847,504 times
Reputation: 857
Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
What "two competing ideologies?"
You mean US and Russia?
Both are staunchly capitalist at this point.

So there is no clash of ideologies here.
Actually, America and Russia have different ideologies that come into conflict with each other.
America insists on a unipolar world, wants to remain a planetary hegemon and a world policeman, talks about its exceptionalism, wants to impose on the whole world to live according to its "democratic values", constantly unleashes wars around the globe for its own profit, everything in the world should be subordinated to the interests of American oligarchs, so on and etc. Russia is the complete opposite of such American ideology. Russia announces a multipolar world as an objective situation on the planet, talks about mutually beneficial cooperation between countries, calls for peaceful coexistence based on mutual respect and mandatory consideration of the interests of other countries to avoid any war conflict, insists on compliance with international law by all countries, and so on. As the Russians say, "жить по чеснаку".
American and Russian ideologies have nothing to do with the political and economic system of the country. These ideologies relate to the confrontation of two spiritual and cultural systems in which the evolutionary fate of our humanity is being decided - whether we will live in the old world of meanness, lies, greed, national egoism, wars and blood until we disappear from the earth as a biological species, or humanity will be renewed and rise to a new stage of its evolutionary development and begin to live according to the laws of humanism. The ideological confrontation between America and Russia is a spiritual war for the better future of humankind.
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Old 02-13-2022, 06:18 PM
 
9,511 posts, read 5,484,601 times
Reputation: 9092
Quote:
Originally Posted by westcoastforme View Post
What exactly is this war going to be over? Land?
For Russia it is security and it's also existential for them as a nation. This security involves land, specifically Ukraine. The answer to your question lays in history, military technology, geopolitics, currents events from that part of the world, racist attitudes and just downright a**holery.

I will not be lecturing you on what is going on. I suggest you seek the answers yourself and DO NOT go by the MSM of the west or sources like RT and Sputnik. Go to other sources.

https://www.moonofalabama.org/

The truth is out there for those that seek it out.
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