Oil refiners exploited the crisis': Report shows oil refiners are gouging California drivers (generation, border)

[moneill]

Originally Posted by Mathguy

If the going rate for oil is $100 a barrel and some well in Oklahoma starts pumping out oil, they're going to sell it for $100 or are they going to sell it for $50 to a US refinery so you can have cheaper gas?

You have a serious gap in your flow of logic that somehow our domestic production has this massive impact on oil prices.

Part of the problem is our refinery capacity which is stagnant and can't handle demand spikes.

So, by making up an imaginary non-sensical reason you actually wind up giving a pass for the policies and promises that have kept our refining capacity limited.

But in the mean time Canada was sending their record breaking oil for refinement to the USA. Somehow they managed that spike.

Oil producrs are on record stating they made a business decision not to ramp up production.

That's the end of the line. Now we can debate the morality of that. But noting refinery limitations doesn't address the most definite choice not to even use the resources to the maximum during that time.

[Kracer]

finger points directly to biden destroying the foundation of our economy on the first day in office.

biden sits on a bountiful energy supply while the world freezes in the name of the false flag of global warming.

Energy industry supplies the greatest portion of taxes that the fed government uses frivolously.

The energy industry is being eliminated by biden policies. Reason and logic predict an economic catastrophe as a result. Push global warming policies and not explain the expected consequences?????? why, because the consequences would be unpalatable to the voters!

nefarious intent is crystal clear. divide and conquer. a house divided cannot stand. all biden policies are intended to destabilize society.

[Mathguy]

Originally Posted by moneill

But in the mean time Canada was sending their record breaking oil for refinement to the USA. Somehow they managed that spike.

Oil producrs are on record stating they made a business decision not to ramp up production.

That's the end of the line. Now we can debate the morality of that. But noting refinery limitations doesn't address the most definite choice not to even use the resources to the maximum during that time.

"ramping up production" in terms of oil refineries is an expensive endeavor with a long term recoupment of that investment.

When you are being told that the product made by said investment must be stopped and laws are being passed to do so, that has a chilling impact on long term investment.

Describing it as if they could have just paid a little more overtime and refined a bunch more is an enormous fallacy intended to politically pass off blame.

Everyone is trying to blame somebody else.

P.S. You are aware of all the pledges and laws to end fossil fuels right? But you are upset that companies aren't making long term investments to make more of that product?

[odinloki1]

How dare we talk about corporate price gouging.

Hunter Biden’s laptop is far more harmful to Americans. We need 2 years of hearings about it. Just ignore corporate America and let them do what they want.

[WRM20]

Originally Posted by Mathguy

"ramping up production" in terms of oil refineries is an expensive endeavor with a long term recoupment of that investment.

When you are being told that the product made by said investment must be stopped and laws are being passed to do so, that has a chilling impact on long term investment.

Describing it as if they could have just paid a little more overtime and refined a bunch more is an enormous fallacy intended to politically pass off blame.

Everyone is trying to blame somebody else.

P.S. You are aware of all the pledges and laws to end fossil fuels right? But you are upset that companies aren't making long term investments to make more of that product?

Oil companies were planning on demand reduction before Biden came into office. Long term outlooks have shown demand flat to down in the US for a long time due to more efficient ICE vehicles and natural movement to EVs, hybrids, etc. Gas tax revenue in Texas has been pretty flat for years, reducing the amount of money available for roads. Some refineries, like ExxonMobil in Beaumont, are being expanded to refine lighter oil produced in the US. Companies will make the investment if it is profitable.

[Mathguy]

Originally Posted by WRM20

Oil companies were planning on demand reduction before Biden came into office. Long term outlooks have shown demand flat to down in the US for a long time due to more efficient ICE vehicles and natural movement to EVs, hybrids, etc. Gas tax revenue in Texas has been pretty flat for years, reducing the amount of money available for roads. Some refineries, like ExxonMobil in Beaumont, are being expanded to refine lighter oil produced in the US. Companies will make the investment if it is profitable.

I don't disagree with any of that.

We're moving off fossil fuels and when we make less of something disruptions and demand spikes have more of a price impact.

When combined with inflation and high global oil prices then even moreso.

Where I hold Biden to task is:

1) He is showing zero leadership and instead blaming Kroger, gas station owners etc. and then giving pressers claiming inflation is 2% (annualized*). Gross misinformation and creating division.

2) He REALLY blanked off the Sauds and when he went there and asked for more global production....they decrease global production.

[vincenze]

So, the governor will fine refineries for price gouging, so oil companies will have to close refineries or increase prices to cover the fine.

Governor Newsom Unveils Price Gouging Penalty on Big Oil’s Excessive Profits to Protect Californians from Being Ripped Off

https://www.gov.ca.gov/2022/12/05/go...ng-ripped-off/

[Mathguy]

Originally Posted by vincenze

So, the governor will fine refineries for price gouging, so oil companies will have to close refineries or increase prices to cover the fine.



https://www.gov.ca.gov/2022/12/05/go...ng-ripped-off/

So much for "the party of science". Supply and demand just doesn't seem to work in California while it does everywhere else.

Meanwhile everyone tells us that the president can't control gas prices. (Because it's not Bush this time)

We went through all this BS before in 2007-08 where they promised to "take those record profits" - HRC which was just political dog and pony.

So to reiterate:

-Gas prices aren't controllable by politicians.
-It's up because of global pressure
-Oh wait it's the gas station owners.
-Um no, it's the fault of the refiners and oil companies.
-Oh I missed the "it's the oil companies fault for not investing more"

[ntwrkguy1]

Originally Posted by Mathguy

So much for "the party of science". Supply and demand just doesn't seem to work in California while it does everywhere else.

Meanwhile everyone tells us that the president can't control gas prices. (Because it's not Bush this time)

We went through all this BS before in 2007-08 where they promised to "take those record profits" - HRC which was just political dog and pony.

So to reiterate:

-Gas prices aren't controllable by politicians.
-It's up because of global pressure
-Oh wait it's the gas station owners.
-Um no, it's the fault of the refiners and oil companies.
-Oh I missed the "it's the oil companies fault for not investing more"

The hard cold reality is that WTI closed at $74 a barrel today.

Someone along the chain of refinery/middleman/station is making some serious profit at the price per gallon in CA.

I paid $3.28 for premium at Costco today in NC. I'm sure the majority of CA is at least $5.50 a gallon for premium, if not higher.

[moneill]

Sure California -- but comparing prices here in the last few weeks shows that some of you are paying way above national average and dollars more than some of us.

Is it all state and local taxes....hmmmm