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Listen, in this Orwellian World we now live in, the most common practice we see is “projection”. Whether it appears in the form of alleging Trump is engaged in corruption with foreign nations, which was actually being done by his accusers, or this propaganda of Russians committing atrocities against civilians which is patently false, but has been commonly practiced by the Ukrainian military for the past 8 years, resulting in thousands of Ukrainian civilians deliberately targeted and murdered in the Donbas region.
That’s right pal …. freaking Ukrainian civilians … like an old man shoveling snow from his driveway, murdered by a Ukrainian military sniper for no reason other than sport. Like schools, hospitals, and power stations shelled by Ukrainian artillery and mortars. These poor people have suffered 8 freaking years of being under Ukrainian military assaults, and all of it brought to them by USA Inc. The wholly owned subsidiary of the Globalist New World Order.
It’s the same old story … time after time, country after country, and many of you people seem to detest the truth, since you seem to love the lies so much. There seems to be no lie you aren’t willing to accept at face value, nor any truth you reject out of hand. That just seems to be the inescapable conclusion, unless you really are so stupid as to believe the never ending River of lies fed you, and have a memory that lasts only hours or days??
You don’t remember Saddam Husain’s “Weapons of Mass Destruction” story, to justify the US total military annihilation of Iraq, and the Millions of Iraqis killed and injured based on that LIE ? Surely you must remember that, no?
And guess what? I already know you will not even acknowledge that fact of history, because to do so would expose the gross hypocrisy of your own viewpoints.
You see, this makes you a part of the problem, rather than a part of any potential solution. You aren’t alone, which explains why this world is in the crap shape it’s in, and why these atrocities based on lies, never end.
America, the land of the deceived, and the home of the depraved. That’s who you are.
I was about to reply to this until I read the below:
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyNTexas
Nonsense. The Russians have conducted this military action with extreme restraint, but those days are over, thanks to the actions of the US-NATO, in forcing Russia to step up the intensity.
I honestly have no reply to this nonsense, so I'll end my replies to you here. I honestly think you're part of of the Russian State propaganda paid to infiltrate social media and message forums around the world.
It seems some reports are indicating Ukraine is low on soldiers so the west will also need to send more men as well. As long as we are willing to escalate to that point the war can continue. All the while more of the nation is destroyed. Reports are Russia has emptied their prisons and used the Wagner group, to inflict casualties and destruction. Russians have avoided using weapons of mass destruction, although if/when Western troops spring into action all options remain open to them.
Russia has thus far avoided using weapons of mass destruction because even Putin knows that crosses
the line and the gloves come off and then Russia has to deal with the full force of NATO and other Ukraine allies.
As for Wagner Group using Russian prisoners ....that is just cannon fodder....pure and simple....
Ukrainian troops did all that for many years before the special military operation started. If your memory and moral outrage will be this selective, I can't really discuss this with you.
And so did the Russians. I'm fully aware of the back and forth of both the Russians and Ukrainians prior to the 2022 invasion. However, 2 wrongs (or 3) don't make a right.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprawling_Homeowner
And of course, Ukrainians have been deliberately targeting civilians during this conflict, and they've executed captured, disarmed Russian POWs.
They have? Deliberately? Are you sure?
And the Russian POWs: I'm sure there are a few bad Ukrainian soldiers who performed war crimes. Absolutely. And they should be prosecuted. However, this pails to the atrocities the Russians have done.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sprawling_Homeowner
And again: Why do you support Ukraine? Do you think Ukraine is actually innocent here? What happened in 2014? Was the Ukrainian constitution followed when Viktor Yanukovych was forced out by the Ukrainian parliament? What's your take, if any, on Ukrainian fighters shelling and killing areas in the Donbass leading to thousands of dead civilians?
The Donbas situation is a mess, but to blame this on the Urkanian? To be best of my knowledge its Russia who started this by invading Crimea and supporting pro-Russian, anti-government separatist groups. I don't hear you say a single word about the Russian's actions in the Donbas.
I'm not necessarily supporting Ukraine, but I'm firmly against Putin (not Russia). He has shown in Crimea, Georgia and Syria that his methods are evil and if he wins in Ukraine he will not stop. Putin must and should be stopped, and hopefully that will bring peace and order to the region. Putin (and Russia) has no claim on former satellite states.
To the brainwashed masses, that makes me a Russian agent, but these atrocities and crimes involve a lot many more people than just Russians, and date back long before many of these nitwits were even born.
I don't believe that you are a Russian agent. I do believe that you are easily manipulated and do not have the skills to understand rudimentary standards of evidence.
Don't even know why I am engaging you but I'll give it a shot. What I think is pathetic is 16 year old children being drafted into a war their country has no chance in winning. People like you sit comfortably in whatever country you live in and cheer on death of innocent people on both sides. But what do you give a sheet right?
Ukraine started the war with what 2000 tanks now they want a couple hundred more? Like it's going to make any difference? With the exception of Odessa Russia controls the only land in Ukraine worth having. So tell me again how Russia is going broke and is losing while the vassal states of Europe bend the knee to whoever is calling the shots and lets their industry and people's lives burn to the ground.
All this over saving a democratic state on the other side of the world. Freaking laugh riot. They ain't a democracy and for the record neither are we.
The tanks, which we all saw the obsolescence in the face or current anti-tank systems as the Russia's best was swept from the field is a political signal. With Germany changing the terms of the end user certificates after the US agreed to send a tank battalion everybody is able to jump in and donate their excess main battle tanks. Literally a brigade from here and another brigade from there. It says that we are not going to sit by and the donations are just an extension of sanctions.
Meanwhile Russia struggles upgrade old tank hulls. And their civilian aircraft risk losing their air worthy certificates because they are catching fire due to lack of maintenance and spare parts.
Russia has thus far avoided using weapons of mass destruction because even Putin knows that crosses
the line and the gloves come off and then Russia has to deal with the full force of NATO and other Ukraine allies.
..
I don't think that is the reason he hasn't used them. I think he hasn't needed to use them. Speculating from the Russian view, the casualties they have incurred are manageable. If Russia used weapons of mass destruction within Ukraine, I don't think the full force of NATO is coming down on them. Individual countries would probably step-up assistance, although I don't think it would offset the damage Russia would inflict. NATO would become involved if Russia attacked a NATO member.
It seems there is a tacit agreement that western nations are safe, and no weapons of mass destruction are being used in Ukraine, as long as Western nations don't provide weapons that go deep into Russia. If this is true, there are some grey areas still regarding Western troops/weaponry in Ukraine but so far the fine line has been walked adequately.
Yes, you did; you have written you wanted Russia to collapse and if its people suffer, so be it.
Helping Ukraine? To the tune of billions and billions of dollars while our weapons stockpiles decrease? And who benefits? A small number of unbelievably corrupt people (starting with Zelensky)?
What will you say if indeed Russia wins and seizes and permanently controls all the land east of the Dnieper? Will it have been worth it, just to attempt to make Russia "collapse?"
Russia is not anywhere near collapse.
Neither was the USSR in 1987 when the price of oil collapsed. It took 5 years before they fell apart, but they did fall apart.
This, too, will take some time. That's why I say it doesn't much matter who wins this war. Russia will collapse because of sanctions, boycotts and population decline. The world has already adjusted to life without Russian oil, gas and minerals - and that was the only game Russia had.
You can't produce oil for $44, sell it for $49, pay for shipping and make enough money to run a country. The world knows this; Russia is purposely being destroyed.
Well Russia can continue to engage war for years and years, like it did fighting Afghanistan in a conflict/war that lasted 9 years from '79 to '89. Russia even controlled Kabul and still gave up. All this to support the Soviet puppet Afghan leader that Russia installed by force. Russia did not like Afghanistan leadership acting independent, ignoring Russian demands. Fighting for 9 years was so costly it helped collapse the Soviet Union!
Yes, Russian can run out of weapons and material. Why is buying drones from Iran? Russia also has older tanks and older tech etc. But they will use everything they got until they run out. Like they did in Afghanistan.
Ah, yes, the success of operation Cyclone. As a result democracy was established in Afghanistan... Oh, wait
Well, you know, it just might have something to do with the fact that Ukraine was chained to Russia against its will for 70 years, give or take. Is it hard to believe the Baltic States voted with their feet, or was their independence part of a CIA conspiracy, too? They don't really want independence, it was forced on them by the US, is that what you're going to tell us next?
back at'cha.
Ruth, Ukraine was not "chained to Russia for 70 years."
It was the inseparable part of Russia for 300 years before that, EXCEPT FOR THE WESTERNMOST COUPLE OF PROVINCES that you keep on substituting for "Ukraine."
That's where your confusion is coming from.
Volhynia and Galicia - yes, those provinces became part of Poland already back in the 1200-1300ies, if to make the long story short. Then they became part of the Austro-Hungarian Empire and so on.
But that's not "UKRAINE," but only a small part of it.
Kievan Rus (whose territories now are partially in Ukraine and partially - in "Russia proper,") is the place where modern Russia was born.
Baltic countries on another hand were the lands that used to belong to Sweden, and that Russia received as the spoils of war with Sweden back in the 1700ies from what I remember.
Therefore obviously Russians perceive the lands of their birthplace and the lands that they received as the spoils of war, with unrelated to them people, as two different things.
I hope this clears the confusion, because these are all historic facts.
LOL. Sure. Here is the thing I think you are missing. We are quite willing to keep escalating this. Weve sent Abrahms tanks, Bradleys, and ER weaponry. We can keep escalating this all day. Russia just cant. While the world would forgive almost anything if Russia was defending themselves, in this case they are not.
NATO is quite determined to not allow Russia to take land yet again with this unprovoked aggression.
I’m missing nothing here, but you’re missing everything.
First, these contributions of a few tanks here, and a few missile systems will do nothing to alter the trajectory of the war, because the war is already lost, and NATO knows this. These are political talking points, not war strategy. It’s nothing more than “see, we are doing everything we can to help Ukraine” political claptrap, for consumption by nitwits who simply don’t know anything about the status of this war, other than what they see on TV.
Furthermore, this can’t be sustained indefinitely, as you claim, simply because Ukraine is running out of Ukrainians to sacrifice on the battlefield. These tanks don’t operate themselves, and require trained 3-4 man crews, and a few more support personnel EACH just to maintain and keep operational. And a 15 tank unit represents ONE “company” which amounts to 3 or 4 platoons, and roughly 200 soldiers. This is a mission specific force, with very limited capability, and without defensive air support, it’s a DEATH SENTENCE not a fighting unit. Sure, such a unit might be able to kill a few Russians in the process, but has a survival estimate of an ice cream cone in July, on an unprotected battlefield. These tanks are coffins with barrels sticking out of them. You best believe that these tanks aren’t causing Russia’s military strategists to lose sleep at night. If that hardware even makes it there, which is highly questionable, it’s a pimple on a flea’s ass. Ukraine needs 1500 tanks yesterday, not a dozen in a few months. Ukraine is unlikely to even exist as a nation state a few months from now. Sorry Amazon, the address you are attempting to deliver to no longer exists. That’s the reality.
The biggest, latest, and most dangerous move for Ukraine is the US agreement to send those longer range missiles to Ukraine, which have the capacity to hit targets inside Russia proper. And if you think Russia is going to allow Ukraine to fire off missiles into Moscow, you’re as delusional as the idiots agreeing to send them. The only thing this will cause is Russia to move more deeply into Ukraine, pushing the front line further back, and taking those missiles back out of range. This will only result in more devastation of Ukraine than might otherwise have occurred.
Now, about this claimed NATO “determination” you speak of … the truth is, NATO isn’t operating by the phony propaganda you are … the support for this war inside NATO is melting away as rapidly as the aforementioned ice cream cone, because they know the writing is on the wall. The entirety of the European Union wants this war to end yesterday, including certain NATO members. It’s the idiots in Washington DC who want to fight this war down to the last Ukrainian. Germany is dragging their heels, and Turkey is outright refusing to cooperate. The NATO alliance is fracturing, because many of them fully understand that there are only two ways this can go … a peace agreement, or direct NATO-Russia confrontation that no one of sound mind desires, because the consequences are even greater than what Europe suffered in WW II, and THEY ALL KNOW THIS. The only country other than the US that has any enthusiasm for this conflict is Poland, because they still hate Russians, from the old days of the former Soviet Union. Other than the Poles, not so much in terms of desire to continue this NATO led debacle.
I don’t know how this is all going to play out, but if I had to make a guess, I suspect that back channels are already feverishly searching for the best way out of this war, that maintains some remnant of Ukraine intact, because the longer this drags out, the more deeply entrenched Russia will be in larger tracts of Ukrainian territory, and they ain’t leaving, accept under their terms. The Donbas is now Russian territory, and that’s not ever to change now. As for the west’s aspirations to recapture Crimea … totally absurd, and never going to happen.
So, the fate of Ukraine, what’s left of it, depends on NATO’S posture from this point forward. Russia holds all the cards, and everybody knows it.
If you don’t believe me, believe that globalist stooge, General Milley who is subtlety weaving a new narrative, admitting that Russia controls 20% of Ukraine, and that it is unrealistic to expect Ukraine to be able to expel Russia from all of Ukrainian territory this year.
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