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Russia controlled Poland before. Not sure why they would want it now but the Poles aren't taking any chances. They see it as a credible threat.
Interesting to me that Russia has been interfering in Moldova lately, and there is a strong possibility that Lukashenko in Belarus is vulnerable to being deposed by the Russians.
Ukraine's stubborn resistance seems to be really interfering with Putin's larger plans.
And Poland was once at the gate of Moscow with its troops and tried to claim the Russian throne. Do you really want to go this rout, and how far back do you want to go in the relations of these two?
...
Yes, I do.
Poland occupied Moscow once in it's history when Poland was under the control of kings and nobles. It lasted a few years at most. Swedes, Poles, Russians all had armies crossing foreign lands in those days and the suffering was widespread across Europe. Mostly this was because of very rich and powerful people getting greedy and making the common people die for them far from home.
Those days are over, people of republics like Poland and Ukraine don't have to attack foreign lands anymore on behalf of some tyrant and die in those places for the ego and greed of some avaricious and corrupt despot. Unfortunately, the Russian people still do as we can see.
But Poland is much smaller than Russia ... smaller than modern day Ukraine ... and lacks natural borders on several sides, so it has been easy to overrun if a powerful enemy has the intention.
Central Poland spent generations, not a few years ... generations under the control of the Russian empire, this was no fleeting thing, it was heavy handed oppression, then a brief period of freedom and back under the Russian dominated Soviet Union for more decades.
They know what the Russian boot heel feels like on the back of their necks. They want absolutely none of that ever again. They will not accept Putin's aggression, they will fight like hell and if needs be die fighting to defend their homeland from those butchers.
Poland is enjoying real security for the first time in many centuries because of it's membership in the EU and NATO. They want nothing to do with Russia and they know Putin has been conducting hybrid warfare to break up the NATO alliance and the EU ... to make countries like Poland vulnerable once again. THIS is why Poland is giving so much assistance to Ukraine, they are bending over backwards to help their neighbor. Giving them everything they can. Giving till it hurts!
So Poland is beefing up it's defenses. Poland intends be so powerful and deadly to an invader they should not ever consider attacking. But more than that, they know that every złoty spent helping Ukraine beat off this aggression from Putin's Russia is amplified many times over in effectiveness by weakening Putin's credible threat, it is a złoty well spent.
I thoroughly agree. Poland needs to give till it's heart bleeds, because the alternative is much, much worse.
Those days are over, people of republics like Poland and Ukraine don't have to attack foreign lands anymore on behalf of some tyrant and die in those places for the ego and greed of some avaricious and corrupt despot. Unfortunately, the Russian people still do as we can see.
The nature of government hasn't changed whatsoever. It hasn't changed because reality and human-nature haven't changed. The United States might be the most militaristic country in world history, and its entire existence was the result of war, colonialism, and conquest.
The actual reason Poland doesn't invade other countries is because it can't. It is too weak. Poland would retake all of Galicia if it could.
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Originally Posted by Hesychios
Poland is enjoying real security for the first time in many centuries because of it's membership in the EU and NATO.
Poland is definitely secure, but is it sovereign? Is anyone in the EU truly sovereign these days? Can Poland resist EU and US pressure to adopt its laws and standards? Basically, could Poland actually resist the pressure to accept the same mass immigration and woke policies that in my view are destroying Western Europe and the United States?
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Originally Posted by Hesychios
They want nothing to do with Russia and they know Putin has been conducting hybrid warfare to break up the NATO alliance and the EU.
From the perspective of Russia, the EU and NATO are essentially American/German imperialism. And all "democratic" governments are fundamentally controlled by an international cabal of bankers.
That is why democracy is inseparable from capitalism. That is why democracy "works". And that is what it really means to make the world safe for democracy.
Last edited by Redshadowz; 03-04-2023 at 11:34 PM..
From the perspective of Russia, the EU and NATO are essentially American/German imperialism. And all "democratic" governments are fundamentally controlled by an international cabal of bankers.
We already know that the perspective of 'Russia ' is entirely screwed up. The people don't know what to think because they have been manipulated to the point of incoherence through captive news sources.
Russia is completely dominated by a criminal cartel which knows all about western banks, they fleeced the Russian people and send the rubles safely far away in western hiding places, like Manhattan condos, golf resorts and German and Swiss bank trusts.
Your narrative is entirely fake. It is an excuse, not a reason to attack it's neighbors. We saw the Russian pride when they bragged on Russian television in their New Years celebration that Russia is "growing again". The imperialists are Putin and his treacherous gang.
Yes, Russia is run by criminals and murderous thugs (they literally kill political opponents), who lie about outside threats to their own people to keep them distracted while they shear them like sheep.
Poland occupied Moscow once in it's history when Poland was under the control of kings and nobles. It lasted a few years at most. Swedes, Poles, Russians all had armies crossing foreign lands in those days and the suffering was widespread across Europe. Mostly this was because of very rich and powerful people getting greedy and making the common people die for them far from home.
Those days are over, people of republics like Poland and Ukraine don't have to attack foreign lands anymore on behalf of some tyrant and die in those places for the ego and greed of some avaricious and corrupt despot. Unfortunately, the Russian people still do as we can see.
No you don't, because then I will be very, very specific when it comes to Poland, instead of your general phrases.
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But Poland is much smaller than Russia ... smaller than modern day Ukraine ... and lacks natural borders on several sides, so it has been easy to overrun if a powerful enemy has the intention. Central Poland spent generations, not a few years ... generations under the control of the Russian empire, this was no fleeting thing, it was heavy handed oppression, then a brief period of freedom and back under the Russian dominated Soviet Union for more decades.
And why do you think it happened?
I'll explain to you why.
Because after that "occupation of Moscow" that you casually mentioned, and after which Russia almost collapsed, Russians learned a good lesson how dangerous Poles are, unless they are kept in check.
Lesson learned, so when Russians regained power, they didn't forget it. Because historically, not only Poland was trying to expand its lands and influence at expense of the Russian territories, but it was constantly involving OTHER major powers to create plots against Russia; for the most part ( but not limited to) - Great Britain/Anglos in general.
It was when Russia was defeated by the mongols and her lands shrunk, Poland expanded, taking over former Russian territories - namely what's now Belorussia and Ukraine, and became a mighty state of Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.
Poles NEVER forgot the taste of it, and they were always salivating over those territories - namely Belorussia and Ukraine, hoping to get them under their control once again.
That's why Poland played a major role behind the scene in the latest "Ukrainian events," rallying to push Ukraine in EU, and all those Belorussian "rebels" that tried to remove Lukashenko, were organizing their activities from Warsaw.
With other words, the actions of the Polish government are constantly directed against Russian interests in Europe, and that's why Poland became the most loyal American servant in EU, promoting American interests there.
As America, Poland is interested in cutting ties between Russia and the "Old Europe" - namely Germany first of all, so its aspirations for creation of the "Intermarium" would serve precisely this goal - cutting Russia away from the "Old Europe," with which Russia had cultural/economic ties for centuries.
In spite of all the lip service regarding the "trustful allies," Biden's administration pursued the same goals, while blowing up the NS 2, for which Polish government was the first one to give him heartfelt "thanks."
So to continue with the same thought - taking control over Ukraine and Belorussia, and removing from there pro-Russian governments, Poland was hoping to increase its clout in EU, instead of being constantly regarded as a beggar for EU funds, and to push for even more anti-Russian activities.
Because as the history proved many times, once Russia is weakened, ( be that wars or internal turmoils,) that's when Poland starts actively build its power and lands, at Russia's expense. ( You might find the map here with ever-changing Polish borders quite interesting.)
The latest case, with turmoil in Ukraine instigated by US, and yet another attempt to implement the color revolution in the neighboring Belorussia, was not an exception.
It's just this latest attempt to cut Belorussia off from Russia and to make it work against Russian interests didn't work that well - Russians were on guard this time around and didn't let it happen.
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They know what the Russian boot heel feels like on the back of their necks. They want absolutely none of that ever again. They will not accept Putin's aggression, they will fight like hell and if needs be die fighting to defend their homeland from those butchers.
Now you know why.
There is a reason you see, why the Russian Empire and "collective Germans" ( be that Germany, Prussia or Austro-Hungarians) were partitioning Poland from time to time, just to remove it out of the game all together, so that it wouldn't stand on their way of politics.
And of course, like many people of the Russian empire, Poles were nothing alien to Russians - there were plenty of mixed families, some prominent actors/military commanders/nobility there were of Polish descent, not to mention that the first KGB chief, the "Iron Felix" was a Pole.
Heck, I have them somewhere in my family too ( the Poles that is,) but that's not the point.
Here comes the most interesting part of it all;
See, in spite of all this "freedom-loving, democratic la-la," Poles actually are as conservative in their culture as Russians.
And that's why, in spite of all their desire to serve American masters and to please the "progressive" EU, they really can't do it, because all this "multi-culturalism," LGBTism" and "wokism" so loved by the EU, is really not their thing.
Like Russians, they don't digest all those ideas very well, and that's why they start running into problems with Brussels more and more lately.
And therefore here comes the paradox;
Poland would love to be that power dictating certain rules/standing up for certain values, the kind Russians are standing for too.
Except for Poles don't have what it takes, (and never had it,) as much as they were challenging the Russians throughout history, trying to replace them as a major power.
Russians are the only people that have what it takes to control the West, when it goes "woke," and THIS can't be changed.
From the perspective of Russia, the EU and NATO are essentially American/German imperialism. And all "democratic" governments are fundamentally controlled by an international cabal of bankers.
You forgot China.
Russia is a joke without the support and aid of China.
China is the biggest threat to the west, not Russia.
We already know that the perspective of 'Russia ' is entirely screwed up. The people don't know what to think because they have been manipulated to the point of incoherence through captive news sources.
I'm not Russian and I agree with them.
With that said, there is nothing wrong with NATO being a tool of American imperialism. That is exactly what it should be. Machiavelli and Thomas Hobbes were almost entirely correct when it comes to the nature of the world. Empires don't exist purely to bully other countries. They exist because in this world, power is all that matters. And the only way to protect yourself from power, is to become more powerful.
"To put it in a terminology that harkens back to the more brutal age of ancient empires, the three grand imperatives of imperial geostrategy are to prevent collusion and maintain security dependence among the vassals, to keep tributaries pliant and protected, and to keep the barbarians from coming together." - Zbigniew Brzezinski
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Originally Posted by Hesychios
Your narrative is entirely fake. It is an excuse, not a reason to attack it's neighbors. We saw the Russian pride when they bragged on Russian television in their New Years celebration that Russia is "growing again". The imperialists are Putin and his treacherous gang.
All countries would be imperialist if they could. For that matter, capitalism is always and forever imperialism. I'm not here to defend the Russians. My point is that if things were reversed, America would be far more ruthless than Russia. The United States is one of the most ruthless and militaristic countries in world history. And our media is nothing but a propaganda arm for the rich and powerful(IE our oligarchs).
"Since trade ignores national boundaries and manufacturers insist on having the world as a market, the flag of the nation must follow him and the doors of the nations which are closed against him must be battered down. Concessions obtained by financiers must be safe-guarded by Ministers of State, even if the sovereignty of an unwilling nation be outraged in the process. Colonies must be obtained or planted in order that no useful corner of the world may be overlooked or left unused." - Woodrow Wilson
All of the morons around here who have been cheerleading Ukraine have been cheerleading WWIII. Ukraine isn't a democracy. Ukraine is a tool of American imperialism.
Paradoxically, my goal is to destroy imperialism. It has been my stated objective on this forum for all 14 years I have been here. I would even go so far as to say that I would like to see the breakup of the current Russian Empire, but I'm far more concerned about the American Empire.
The American Empire is the most globalist, degenerate, and anti-white empire in world history. And if the American Empire succeeds in destroying the Russian Empire by using Eastern Europeans as our proxies, we can economically and militarily encircle and isolate China, then there won't be anyone left who can stand against a permanent global American Empire. The bankers will have won.
With that said, my original interest in Ukraine was because I'm a separatist/secessionist. I interpret phrases like "territorial integrity" to literally mean imperialism. Crimea does not want to be part of Ukraine. It isn't even debatable. And that was known long before the 2014 coup. When it comes to what is right and just, the Ukrainians are completely in the wrong. The Russians stand on the side of angels compared to the tyrants and warmongers in Kiev.
A better summation of this war is that Western Ukraine is trying to conquer, subjugate, and ethnically-cleanse Eastern and Southern Ukraine at the orders of Washington D.C. accompanied by tens of billions of dollars from the US treasury to buy off corrupt Ukrainian oligarchs which America is using as our weapons to fight Russia. They are reaping what they sowed.
This idea that the Ukrainians are innocent victims of Russian aggression is almost entirely backwards. That doesn't mean I'm in favor of war, but it does mean that Ukraine is getting exactly what it wanted.
As I said back in 2014, and to quote Jesus Christ, "Those who live by the sword, die by the sword".
Is that part of the West propaganda? "humiliated"?
If that is the new made up standard then what does that makes the U.S. with the West that couldn't do it in 20 years and bailed out of Afghanistan in the night. The U.S. even left weapons and equipment to the enemy.
And yet this "paper tiger" has not been defeated by a Ukrainian military which received western training for years and which has received substantial amounts of western weaponry. Did you know the Pentagon has admitted Russia has captured some of that weaponry, and did you know the Biden/Harris "administration" can't even track where at least some of the weapons even end up?
A demographic tragedy is unfolding in Russia. Over the past three years the country has lost around 2m more people than it would ordinarily have done, as a result of war, disease and exodus. The life expectancy of Russian males aged 15 fell by almost five years, to the same level as in Haiti. The number of Russians born in April 2022 was no higher than it had been in the months of Hitler’s occupation. And because so many men of fighting age are dead or in exile, women outnumber men by at least 10m.
War is not the sole—or even the main—cause of these troubles but it has made them all worse. According to Western estimates, 175,000-200,000 Russian soldiers have been killed or wounded over the past year (Russia’s own figures are lower). Somewhere between 500,000 and 1m mostly young, educated people have evaded the meat grinder by fleeing abroad. Even if Russia had no other demographic problems, losing so many in such a short time would be painful. As it is, the losses of war are placing more burdens on a shrinking, ailing population. Russia may be entering a doom loop of demographic decline.
[…]
… the overall effect of demographic decline will be to change Russia profoundly and for the worse. Most countries which have suffered population falls have managed to avoid big social upheavals. Russia may be different. Its population is falling unusually fast and may drop to 130m people by mid-century. The decline is associated with increased misery: the life expectancy at birth of Russian males plummeted from 68.8 in 2019 to 64.2 in 2021, partly because of covid, partly from alcohol-related disease. Russian men now die six years earlier than men in Bangladesh and 18 years earlier than men in Japan.
And Russia may not achieve what enables other countries to be rich and ageing: high and rising levels of education. Nicholas Eberstadt, a demographer at the American Enterprise Institute in Washington, dc, argues that the country presents a peculiar combination of third-word mortality and first-world education. It has some of the highest rates of educational attainment among over-25s in the world. But the exodus of well-educated young families is eroding this advantage. According to the communications ministry, 10% of it workers left the country in 2022. Many were young men. Their flight is further skewing Russia’s unbalanced sex ratio which in 2021 meant there were 121 females older than 18 for every 100 males.
The demographic doom loop has not diminished Mr Putin’s craving for conquest. But it is making Russia a smaller, worse-educated and poorer country, from which young people flee and where men die in their 60s. The invasion has been a human catastrophe and not only for Ukrainians.
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