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View Poll Results: Do you support giving Ukraine F-16s
Yes 201 39.88%
No 254 50.40%
Unsure 49 9.72%
Voters: 504. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-15-2023, 09:30 PM
 
1,695 posts, read 903,460 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roderic View Post
I can prove you wrong in so many ways but that would derail from the point of this thread.
It's not necessary about proving anyone wrong. History to some degree is just a agreed upon set of lies. Perspectives matter and we are all subject to biases which cause us to interpret things in a particular manner. It is what it is. Instead of trying to prove anyone wrong, try to present another opinion or way of thinking.
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Old 12-15-2023, 11:16 PM
bu2
 
24,175 posts, read 15,032,389 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnBoy64 View Post
Amusing. They have barely moved the lines in Donetsk since the early months, lost some ground in Luhansk and been driven back in the two southern provinces significantly and driven out of several other oblasts.
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Old 12-16-2023, 12:40 AM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
29,978 posts, read 25,099,231 times
Reputation: 28703
Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo58 View Post
Russia today is not “modified communism “. It’s a right wing, nationalist dictatorship. It has more in common with the tsars than the Bolsheviks. But the rest of your post I agree with.

What exactly makes Russia or Putin "right wing"??? Russia has some rather strict gun laws for example that most right wing folks in the USA would want nothing to do with. And Putin himself is just an old washed up relic of Russia's communist past. He was literally in the KGB. I think most right wing Americans do not hold a favorable view of the KGB, communism, the USSR, etc.


Quite frankly, right wing folks in the USA have never trusted Russia or looked favorably towards it for the most part. On the other hand, Mitt Romney (R) was laughed at for suggesting Russia might actually be a threat to the USA. Obama famously stated the 80's called, they want their foreign policy back.
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Old 12-16-2023, 01:38 AM
 
5,113 posts, read 2,787,104 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leo58 View Post
How much territory has Russia taken in the past 6 months? Both sides continue to battle over a few worthless square miles near Bakhmut.
Not much territory on either side but the Ukrainians were in counteroffensive mode since June and were expected to push through to the Sea of Azov, cut off Crimea, destroy the Kerch bridge and then take Crimea and push the Russians out of Donbas. But they weren't able to do that, lost a lot of troops knocking their heads against the strong Russian defenses and now are in defensive mode while the Russians have switched to attack mode. Avdeevka is teetering and about to be taken by the Russians and the advancement has started to accelerate. The next couple of months should be interesting.
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Old 12-16-2023, 04:53 PM
 
Location: Port Charlotte FL
4,968 posts, read 2,747,822 times
Reputation: 7766
'Reporting from Ukraine' update'


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtOzTDfsGW0
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Old 12-16-2023, 06:17 PM
 
26,875 posts, read 22,739,162 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire View Post
What exactly makes Russia or Putin "right wing"??? Russia has some rather strict gun laws for example that most right wing folks in the USA would want nothing to do with.

Russia ( as the rest of Europe) has different attitude towards gun ownership in general, so guns - it's American specifics, and in general understanding not strictly "left" or "right" thing. ( For example look how Bernie Sanders looks at gun ownership in Vermont.)

So this point of yours is not valid, when it comes to Putin/Russia.

Quote:
And Putin himself is just an old washed up relic of Russia's communist past. He was literally in the KGB.
KGB doesn't exist. Russians have FSB now, as no one cancelled CIA/FBI in the US.

So again - non-valid point in this case.

Quote:
I think most right wing Americans do not hold a favorable view of the KGB, communism, the USSR, etc.
Which are all non-existent in Putin's Russia, and unlike you, they are well-aware of it.


Quote:
Quite frankly, right wing folks in the USA have never trusted Russia or looked favorably towards it for the most part. On the other hand, Mitt Romney (R) was laughed at for suggesting Russia might actually be a threat to the USA. Obama famously stated the 80's called, they want their foreign policy back.
On the other hand, they've never seen 32 genders, eight million illegals, cheated elections, their popular candidate being persecuted/banned from social media and the rest.

So should we go back now to the subject of why Putin is a right winger or not?
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Old 12-16-2023, 06:37 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
29,978 posts, read 25,099,231 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Russia ( as the rest of Europe) has different attitude towards gun ownership in general, so guns - it's American specifics, and in general understanding not strictly "left" or "right" thing. ( For example look how Bernie Sanders looks at gun ownership in Vermont.)

So this point of yours is not valid, when it comes to Putin/Russia.


KGB doesn't exist. Russians have FSB now, as no one cancelled CIA/FBI in the US.

So again - non-valid point in this case.


Which are all non-existent in Putin's Russia, and unlike you, they are well-aware of it.




On the other hand, they've never seen 32 genders, eight million illegals, cheated elections, their popular candidate being persecuted/banned from social media and the rest.

So should we go back now to the subject of why Putin is a right winger or not?

You could have just said gay marriage is illegal in Russia. Homosexuality is a social phenomena though and it really shouldn't be regulated by politicians. For one thing, someone's political ideology does not determine their innate sexual preference. It might influence how they manage their desires. But being right wing doesn't mean you automatically hate homosexuals, gay marriage, etc. There are also right wing people who are homosexual, and everything else imaginable. I think they call them "log cabin Republicans" in the USA.


One thing I can think of that Russia and the US democrats agree with... They both want to use the government as a tool to silence opposition, whether it be to a leader, a vaccine, or anything else the state feels threatened by. In Russia, if you go online and talk crap about Putin, I think that can put your general well being in jeopardy. In the USA, and moreso in Canada, there have been recent noteworthy examples. Trudeau went after the truckers. People who sent them money also complained they were hassled. Certainly not as bad as what happens in Russia, but it's a big step in the wrong direction.


The Biden regime also attempted to install a "disinformation czar".


Don't forget, democrat socialist Bernie Sanders did have his honeymoon in the USSR...
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Old 12-16-2023, 07:22 PM
 
26,875 posts, read 22,739,162 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire View Post
You could have just said gay marriage is illegal in Russia. Homosexuality is a social phenomena though and it really shouldn't be regulated by politicians. For one thing, someone's political ideology does not determine their innate sexual preference. It might influence how they manage their desires. But being right wing doesn't mean you automatically hate homosexuals, gay marriage, etc. There are also right wing people who are homosexual, and everything else imaginable. I think they call them "log cabin Republicans" in the USA.
I am not sure what you are talking in this case, when it comes to Russians.

They are not muslims, they understand it all, they let these people live their lives and do what they want to do in the privacy of their homes. Homosexuality is not prohibited by law in Russia. "Pride parades" and any other kind of advertisement of "alternative way of life" is what prohibited.

Quote:
One thing I can think of that Russia and the US democrats agree with... They both want to use the government as a tool to silence opposition, whether it be to a leader, a vaccine, or anything else the state feels threatened by.
I would say yes to that.

Quote:
In Russia, if you go online and talk crap about Putin, I think that can put your general well being in jeopardy. In the USA, and moreso in Canada, there have been recent noteworthy examples. Trudeau went after the truckers. People who sent them money also complained they were hassled. Certainly not as bad as what happens in Russia, but it's a big step in the wrong direction. The Biden regime also attempted to install a "disinformation czar".
Yes to this again, although OFFICIALLY it's not a case.

Yet in spite of this all, Putin is a "right wing" in terms that the most important thing for him are his corporations and profits ( even though in public he loves to talk about the "social values" to Russians.)

And of course he likes his direct ties to the church, the reliance on "traditional Russian patriarchal laws and old-fashioned family values."

So yes, he is a right winger all right, as much as he pretends to be a "left-wing" for Russians, in order to be more appealing to them.

Quote:
Don't forget, democrat socialist Bernie Sanders did have his honeymoon in the USSR...
I'm sure he enjoyed it.

It was very nice to visit Soviet Union back then, while keeping the American passport in his pocket.

Last edited by erasure; 12-16-2023 at 07:37 PM..
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Old 12-16-2023, 09:00 PM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
25,732 posts, read 17,496,059 times
Reputation: 37556
Russia has lost $120B/year in natural gas sales to Europe. Europe has almost completed the switch to Liquified Natural Gas, so Russia, having limited ability to supply LNG, has been taken out of the market. The pipelines have been destroyed and will never be used again, so the loss is permanent.


The pipeline to China will probably never be finished. There is a fairly small one operating, but it does not replace the European market.


There are about 2,000 large oil tankers operating around the globe. 82% of them are "Clear" meaning their ownership is clear and transponders are always on.
The other 360 (18%) are either Dark or Grey. Dark ships have questionable ownership and unclear destinations with transponders always turned off. Grey ships sometimes disappear.
The average age of Dark ships is 20 years. Everything about these ships is shady - ownership, cargo, destination and maintenance. They never approach the US.
Russia uses 20 year old Dark ships to transport oil at nearly cost. Production is down from last year as is price. Most sources believe Dark ships will operate for years before they all fail. 20 years is a pretty old ship.
But India and China need the oil, so business, small as it is, will go on.
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Old 12-16-2023, 09:35 PM
 
26,875 posts, read 22,739,162 times
Reputation: 10067
Quote:
Originally Posted by Listener2307 View Post
Russia has lost $120B/year in natural gas sales to Europe. Europe has almost completed the switch to Liquified Natural Gas, so Russia, having limited ability to supply LNG, has been taken out of the market. The pipelines have been destroyed and will never be used again, so the loss is permanent.


The pipeline to China will probably never be finished. There is a fairly small one operating, but it does not replace the European market.


There are about 2,000 large oil tankers operating around the globe. 82% of them are "Clear" meaning their ownership is clear and transponders are always on.
The other 360 (18%) are either Dark or Grey. Dark ships have questionable ownership and unclear destinations with transponders always turned off. Grey ships sometimes disappear.
The average age of Dark ships is 20 years. Everything about these ships is shady - ownership, cargo, destination and maintenance. They never approach the US.
Russia uses 20 year old Dark ships to transport oil at nearly cost. Production is down from last year as is price. Most sources believe Dark ships will operate for years before they all fail. 20 years is a pretty old ship.
But India and China need the oil, so business, small as it is, will go on.

Yes I am aware that US government effectually destroyed European economy starting with Germany, substituting their cheap energy source with American LNG, which is three times more expensive.

But did it stop the war in Ukraine as intended?

Nope it didn't and it will not.
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