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View Poll Results: Do you support giving Ukraine F-16s
Yes 201 39.88%
No 254 50.40%
Unsure 49 9.72%
Voters: 504. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 10-16-2022, 08:49 AM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
14,848 posts, read 8,253,235 times
Reputation: 4590

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Quote:
Originally Posted by LINative View Post
Most diplomacy occurs under the radar screen. The Ukrainians already know what Putin wants and it is not acceptable to them and vice-versa.
Prior to the war, Putin wanted a neutral Ukraine. That was all. Since the war, he now wants Novorossiya.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novorossiya
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Old 10-16-2022, 08:51 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
7,825 posts, read 2,755,980 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
Prior to the war, Putin wanted a neutral Ukraine. That was all. Since the war, he now wants Novorossiya.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novorossiya
Then he shouldn't have invaded Ukraine...don't you think. This is simply a massive strategic blunder on his part....it's ALL on Putin.
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Old 10-16-2022, 08:53 AM
 
Location: Oregon Coast
15,625 posts, read 9,295,256 times
Reputation: 20558
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
More like we want to avoid WWIII and a billion deaths.
So let's just surrender to Russia and let them annex Europe and North America. What better way could there be to ensure there will be no WW3? Because that is the only thing that is important.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -Ben Franklin
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Old 10-16-2022, 08:55 AM
 
Location: Oregon Coast
15,625 posts, read 9,295,256 times
Reputation: 20558
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank DeForrest View Post
Why do we need to defeat Russia?
If you love Russia so much, then move there. It's a really easy place to immigrate to.
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Old 10-16-2022, 09:05 AM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
9,230 posts, read 13,342,878 times
Reputation: 10252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
Prior to the war, Putin wanted a neutral Ukraine. That was all. Since the war, he now wants Novorossiya.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novorossiya
Prior to the war, Ukraine was neutral.

So was Finland and Sweden.
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Old 10-16-2022, 09:09 AM
 
Location: Midwest City, Oklahoma
14,848 posts, read 8,253,235 times
Reputation: 4590
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnBoy64 View Post
This is symbolic of the massive intelligence failure on Russia's part.
It wasn't an intelligence failure. It simply wasn't politically possible to mobilize two million Russian men for an invasion of their brother Slavic country, for many reasons, both domestic and international.

It would be like trying to get Americans to invade Canada. Putin has to convince the Russian people that they're not fighting Ukraine. They're fighting NATO. And that the Ukrainians are basically US puppets being used as a weapon for regime-change in Moscow.

In short, Putin has to convince the Russian people that Russia itself is threatened, that Eastern Ukraine is Russian, and that Russia is worth fighting for. If he can whip the Russians into a patriotic fervor, his Army could swell to whatever size they, and their allies, could supply.
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Old 10-16-2022, 09:14 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles
7,825 posts, read 2,755,980 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
It wasn't an intelligence failure. It simply wasn't politically possible to mobilize two million Russian men for an invasion of their brother Slavic country, for many reasons, both domestic and international.

It would be like trying to get Americans to invade Canada. Putin has to convince the Russian people that they're not fighting Ukraine. They're fighting NATO. And that the Ukrainians are basically US puppets being used as a weapon for regime-change in Moscow.

In short, Putin has to convince the Russian people that Russia itself is threatened, that Eastern Ukraine is Russian, and that Russia is worth fighting for. If he can whip the Russians into a patriotic fervor, his Army could swell to whatever size they, and their allies, could supply.
Invading a country the size of Ukraine with 150,000 men....is a massive intelligence failure....or you could say...it was just plumb stupid. Somebody got bad Intel. And I don't see Putin closing the deal with the Russian people on this war anytime soon.....other that rooting for the "Special Military Operation" watching their TV's.
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Old 10-16-2022, 09:31 AM
 
Location: On the Great South Bay
9,230 posts, read 13,342,878 times
Reputation: 10252
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redshadowz View Post
It wasn't an intelligence failure. It simply wasn't politically possible to mobilize two million Russian men for an invasion of their brother Slavic country, for many reasons, both domestic and international.

It would be like trying to get Americans to invade Canada. Putin has to convince the Russian people that they're not fighting Ukraine. They're fighting NATO. And that the Ukrainians are basically US puppets being used as a weapon for regime-change in Moscow.

In short, Putin has to convince the Russian people that Russia itself is threatened, that Eastern Ukraine is Russian, and that Russia is worth fighting for. If he can whip the Russians into a patriotic fervor, his Army could swell to whatever size they, and their allies, could supply.
Hmm, why do you make the word "Convince" sound so much like lying?

The funny thing is some Russians actually believe they are fighting NATO in Ukraine, yet the real NATO borders Russia and there is not fighting at all.
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Old 10-16-2022, 09:36 AM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
25,756 posts, read 17,515,504 times
Reputation: 37582
Ukraine uses the Thunder Run tactic with great success.
Thunder Run is the tactic used by Schwarzkopf in Desert Storm. It's a single point attack using Bradley Fighting Vehicles or their equivalent followed by tanks and lagged by their support team. The object is to enter enemy territory at top speed with all guns blazing. Any enemy sighted is charged by all units available, and over run quickly without stopping.


When successful, the enemy quickly finds himself with armored vehicles between himself and what he, just moments ago, perceived as safety. In this case the Russian soldiers abandoned their positions and ran.


It would take a well trained and disciplined soldier to stand his ground while armored vehicles storm over his position at 50 MPH firing at him as they approach, go past, and even pass his position. Russia doesn't have those types of troops.


Many times the operation simply reverses its course, performing the same operation on the way out of enemy territory, only to use it again the very next day. Baghdad was taken in that way.


Posters who minimize the significance of gaining a few miles a day, lack an understanding of just how long it takes a terrified Russian Soldier to run 10 miles.
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Old 10-16-2022, 09:46 AM
 
21,427 posts, read 7,512,572 times
Reputation: 13233
Quote:
Originally Posted by LINative View Post
...

The funny thing is some Russians actually believe they are fighting NATO in Ukraine, yet the real NATO borders Russia and there is not fighting at all. Are the Russians cowards who are really using Ukraine for regime change in Europe and the USA?
Exactly correct.

NATO already has borders with Russia, and they are completely quiet. Have been, still are.

Just recently we had two Russian men cross the short distance from the Russian coast to St. Lawrence Island, and asked for asylum. No one saw them leaving the one place, or arriving at the other. They just showed up!

Norway has a direct land connection to Russia. Quiet.

No one wants war but Putin. He is using NATO as an excuse, not a reason to attack Ukraine.
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