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View Poll Results: Do you support giving Ukraine F-16s
Yes 201 39.88%
No 254 50.40%
Unsure 49 9.72%
Voters: 504. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-21-2022, 01:52 PM
 
21,427 posts, read 7,508,654 times
Reputation: 13233

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Quote:
Originally Posted by erasure View Post
Quote:
There is nothing wrong with encouraging a free market economy, it has it's benefits ...
It sure does. Particularly when the direct result of such "benefits" is the transfer of the Russia's natural resources under control of the foreign corporations.
What are you advocating for? A centrally controlled economy?

I have news for you: in a free market that's how it works. Take my own country for example, the good old USA: Shell Oil is "Royal Dutch Shell", a foreign company. BP is "British Petroleum". Trump and other real estate moguls made fortunes selling condos to foreigners, or accepting their investments in hotels and resorts. Having foreign investors and commercial entities involved in the economy is a fact of life. If these companies get involved in Russia, they are only doing what companies do, and if the Russians don't like it they control the law in their own nation ... or rather the criminal oligarchs they allow to rule them do.

If the nation's assets are for sale and someone buys them, whose fault is that? If the resources of Russia are controlled by foreigners and that's not desirable, why didn't they stop it?

The Russians are and have always been in control of this process. Russian leadership stole national assets from the Russian people and monetized it. It came from Russia.

It is worth noting that Putin got his start in graft and corruption by shaking down foreign companies who wanted to open up business in Leningrad.

Whose fault is it that Putin had so much power over that process and was so corrupt? I can assure you the foreign companies would really not want to pay Putin a bribe if they could avoid it. They would have rather preferred to work with honest government officials.

It starts with the essential character of the ruling elites and politically connected criminals in Russia, the sticky finger bunch ... the oligarchs like Putin.

Last edited by Hesychios; 06-21-2022 at 02:02 PM.. Reason: spelling and grammar
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Old 06-21-2022, 02:13 PM
 
2,612 posts, read 941,705 times
Reputation: 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hesychios View Post
I get what you are saying, but just about every so-called expert is on the payroll to say what they are expected to say. That's how it is now, no one is impartial, they are all paid to say things someone wants you to hear. That includes the big names like Hannity and Ingraham, and their guests like these retired generals. How can we trust any of them?
I certainly wouldnt trust a Hannity or an Ingraham. I used to listen to Hannity. He has a lot of problems but one major one is that his hyperpartisanship makes him simply irrationally support any point of view he deems is the right wing point of view. When I was listening to his radio show in the earn 90's one of the things he would say that drove me crazy was that it was wrong to criticize a president during a time of war. His issue was democrats criticizing W while W was engaging in a massacre of innocent people thousands of miles away. The position was 1. insane and 2. obvious he wouldnt take it if the president was a democrat.

Anyway, I dont listen to any talking heads and I dont listen to government agents. I try to do my best to seek sources that present information that appears to be quality reporting. I also have my own biases that I am partial to but since I am not a democrat or a republican, I can more objectively look at sources and not be swayed by right or left bias.
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Old 06-21-2022, 07:00 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
7,825 posts, read 2,753,905 times
Reputation: 3388
Todays Update

https://www.understandingwar.org/bac...ssment-june-21

Quote:
The Kremlin recently replaced the commander of the Russian Airborne (VDV) forces and may be in the process of radically reshuffling the command structure of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, indicating a possible purge of senior officers blamed for failures in Ukraine. (interesting read in link...here's a portion below in italics)

The appointment of a separate commander over the Southern Military District, and the replacement of the commander of the SMD in the middle of major combat operations, is a drastic step that would speak to severe crises within the Russian high command, and possibly a purge by the Kremlin. Such drastic rotations within the Russian military, if true, are not actions taken by a force on the verge of a major success and indicate ongoing dysfunction in the Kremlin’s conduct of the war.

The Kremlin is failing to deter the family members of sailors that survived the sinking of the Moskva from issuing an appeal against the deployment of surviving conscripts to the war in Ukraine as of June 20.

Russian forces continue to face force generation challenges and are committing unprepared contract servicemen to the invasion of Ukraine.

The BBC’s Russian service reported on June 20 that new Russian recruits receive only 3 to 7 days of training before being sent to “the most active sectors of the front.”[9] The BBC also reported that volunteers within the conventional Russian military, Rosgvardia units, and Wagner Group mercenaries have become Russia’s main assault force, as opposed to full conventional military units. ISW has previously assessed that Russian units in eastern Ukraine are suffering from poor complements of infantry, slowing their ability to seize urban terrain.
Key Takeaways

Quote:
The Kremlin recently replaced the commander of the Russian Airborne (VDV) forces and may have fired the commander of the Southern Military District and appointed a new overall commander of Russian forces in Ukraine, indicating ongoing dysfunction in the Kremlin’s conduct of the war.

Russian forces conducted several successful advances in settlements southeast of Severodonetsk on June 21 and may be able to threaten Lysychansk in the coming days while avoiding a difficult opposed crossing of the Siverskyi Donets River. (this is not god https://twitter.com/IAPonomarenko/st...18738486444033)

Russian forces continued to launch assaults on settlements along the T1302 Lysychansk-Bakhmut highway to interdict Ukrainian ground lines of communications (GLOCs).

Russian operations along the Izyum-Slovyansk axis are increasingly stalled as Russian forces prioritize operations around Severodonetsk.

Russian forces likely recaptured the eastern bank of the Inhulets River from the Ukrainian bridgehead situated near the Kherson-Mykolaiv Oblast border.

Ukrainian forces reportedly struck Russian positions on Snake Island in the Black Sea, likely to destroy Russian fortifications and equipment on the island, but ISW cannot confirm competing Ukrainian and Russian claims of the results of the attack.

Russian occupation authorities are continuing to face challenges recruiting local collaborators and are likely relying on Russian government personnel to consolidate their societal control of occupied Ukrainian territories.
Activity in Russian-occupied Areas

Quote:
Russian occupation authorities are continuing to face challenges recruiting local collaborators and are likely relying on Russian government personnel to consolidate their societal control. Enerhodar Mayor Dmytro Orlov noted that many young people are fleeing Enerhodar and are refusing to cooperate with Russian occupation forces.[34] Orlov reported that Russian forces have mistreated the remaining employees of the Zaporizhia Nuclear Power Plant who stayed back in the city to minimize the risks of a nuclear emergency.[35] Ukrainian Telegram channel MariupolNow noted the arrival of a large convoy of Russian cars and busses near Mariupol, possibly carrying Russian non-military personnel.[36] Russian occupation authorities installed Russian television networks in Kherson Oblast and are continuing to restore railways in Mariupol despite being unable to consolidate societal control in newly occupied territories.
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Old 06-21-2022, 07:18 PM
 
Location: NE Mississippi
25,727 posts, read 17,490,788 times
Reputation: 37556
Ukrainians target Russia oil facilities in the Black Sea off Crimea coast.
That's a strategic move. Russia needs to sell oil. Depriving them of income is just another way to win.


Tanker prices have tripled since the war began. Shippers must now pay hundreds of thousands of dollars extra because of the danger involved. Russian tankers are now putting out to sea without a clear idea of where they are going and who will buy their oil.


The NY Times reports that some brokers have concluded that Russian oil is just not worth all the trouble. Russian May oil exports are down 10% over April.
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Old 06-21-2022, 09:38 PM
 
10,130 posts, read 19,936,426 times
Reputation: 5821
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyaleWithCheese View Post
Absolutely. Generals are all bribed to push for war (especially former generals).
Wow our generals are all bribed. Interesting.

Your handle is bringing shame to my favorite movie!
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Old 06-21-2022, 09:42 PM
 
10,130 posts, read 19,936,426 times
Reputation: 5821
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyaleWithCheese View Post
Iagents. I try to do my best to seek sources that present information that appears to be quality reporting. I also have my own biases that I am partial to but since I am not a democrat or a republican, I can more objectively look at sources and not be swayed by right or left bias.
Which goes back to my original question, who are these sources you use? Like names?

You’ve told us who you DON’T listen to, but the question was who DO you listen to.
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Old 06-22-2022, 12:22 AM
 
29,549 posts, read 22,880,504 times
Reputation: 48288
Perhaps this is something volunteers should think very hard about. While it's nice and all to want to join the fight to help others, at the same time do realize that it can lead to very damaging consequences later on. You could possibly be captured and then be used as pawns to escalate the situation, and then your country gets dragged into yet another endless war costing trillions, while your own citizens are suffering from a terrible economy, rampant crime, and illegals streaming across a swiss cheese border 24/7.

As Russia Threatens Captured American Vets, U.S. Invokes Laws of War
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Old 06-22-2022, 03:30 AM
 
Location: Honolulu, HI
24,911 posts, read 9,659,350 times
Reputation: 23226
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoyaleWithCheese View Post
Absolutely. Generals are all bribed to push for war (especially former generals).
Bribed? No.

Greatly incentivized to keep war going? Yes.

The military industrial complex doesn’t like peace. First job the secdef, a former general, got was a contract with Raytheon. A defense contracting firm.

Generals are all bidding their time to finally become a private defense contractor. They’re not going to support cutting their own future job opportunities.
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Old 06-22-2022, 04:20 AM
 
51,715 posts, read 26,006,974 times
Reputation: 38000
Generals want war.

What shocking news.

And here I thought the military was composed of peace loving hippie types.

Go figure.
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Old 06-22-2022, 07:55 AM
 
19,204 posts, read 27,838,738 times
Reputation: 20328
Quote:
Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould View Post
Generals want war.

What shocking news.

And here I thought the military was composed of peace loving hippie types.

Go figure.



The new, woke ones? Of course, they are.
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