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oh yes the playground. Our elementary playground is right on one of our main roads. They have an iron fence, but if someone wanted to park across the street and just start shooting - they could .
The Buffalo supermarket massacre also was an unlocked target. We are kidding ourselves if we think that perimeter security can keep us safe; it is theater as I said.
Bully prevention will also go a long way in preventing school shootings. Many of these shooters have mental issues that stem from being bullied in school.
It essentially turns school into a prison, and we all know violence occurs in prison but we sort of dismiss as the norm. We dont want our schools to be prison so bullying cannot happen. Schools have to be a safe zone for children.
Therefore we need behavior enforcers at school if the teachers are not going to be that. And in my experience the teachers definitely dont get involved.
Bullying prevention, I have heard a link of bullying with some school shooters and other mass shooters, but it is more of a case of correlation, not causation because the link hasn't been confirmed. I'm not saying it doesn't, but we haven't clearly see that it does. I mean it is one of many Adverse Childhood Experiences (or ACEs) that can cause trauma that may create the next school shooter. ACEs has a strong correlation to school shootings than bullying. ACEs can include various forms of verbal, physical and sexual assault whether it is at school, the family or whatever; as well as poverty; divorce; drug issues; mental illness in the family; and imprisionment of a family member. FYI my ACEs Score is 1 and my Resilence Score is 12. If you want to find out your's click here.
That is the issue I see with the changes in fences and gates. Yes, high concrete walls will prevent most soft target shootings, but not all. I know as at one of my first camping trips as a Boy Scout, a fellow scout was shot by a stray bullet. I do not think the authorities ever figured out how that scout was shot, but it was not due to the shooting range the camping event had. He lived luckily.
Maybe it is the schools you work at, but I get involved in situations when I need to. I've seen others get involved when needed. This past year I was in band nearly all year for an elective that a student I worked with was enrolled in. I work in special education in behavior issues. There were several times that the general education students had issues and I reported it to the band teacher when she was out. This was the case one specifically bad occasion because I had several students come to me and not just the student I work with. I have also tried breaking up fights and was told for middle school students not to and let them fight so I do not get hurt. Perhaps that is part of it? That said, I cannot say that I haven't heard of staff (teachers or not) getting in trouble for being on their phones during active situations and not doing school work...
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Originally Posted by Clemencia53
oh yes the playground. Our elementary playground is right on one of our main roads. They have an iron fence, but if someone wanted to park across the street and just start shooting - they could .
Yep. The fences are normal chainlink or iron. Most schools have some amount of both.
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Originally Posted by jbgusa
Thus far we agree. I'm not sure if the rest of the post goes in the same direction.
The problem is the jailhouse setting for schools is a point of contention between all sides. We cannot fully agree if making a school a jail is fully the right thing or not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa
The Buffalo supermarket massacre also was an unlocked target. We are kidding ourselves if we think that perimeter security can keep us safe; it is theater as I said.
But here is the other side to this, can stores afford to have metal detectors and security outside? And if they do, it just opens up the parking lot as a soft target. Ask former Rep. Gabby Giffords or perhaps her husband. Sen. Mark Kelly how soft shopping center parking lots are. Giffords can barely talk due to brain damage related to a mass shooting in a Tuscon shopping center parking lot she held a town hall meeting for her constitutents at.
Just a head's up: a good metal detector like you may see at say a courthouse or sports arena can cost you $5,000 while a handwand is $150 but takes longer to get people through. Then the security guards will cost you at least $20 an hour, if you want a very capable one. It may or may not be worth it to make a soft target that is already used, more appetizing...
I myself can't blame it on the unlocked door. How did Salvador Ramos know in advance that a door was going to be open? I'm sure he had plans to blast out a window or shoot out a lock. Easy enough to do.
It would have taken him a few minutes, the noise would be an early alert to all, and perhaps rooms 111/112 could scurry for cover in a different room. Maybe he'd still find them, maybe not, but the bimbo's missing cell phone being her priority made the kids sitting ducks far easier for Ramos.
It doesn't help when one bimbo props a door open that should be locked.
And I bet she figured she would be back quick enough. Captain Hindsight shows she was wrong. I prop doors open a lot when students are outside because of the problem of getting doors unlocked when a body break is over. That said if I get shot during an active shooter situation during a bodybreak and the shooter got my key and there wasn't staff to alert the front office that there were gunshots heard on campus, that shooter is in the school.
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Originally Posted by BobNJ1960
It would have taken him a few minutes, the noise would be an early alert to all, and perhaps rooms 111/112 could scurry for cover in a different room. Maybe he'd still find them, maybe not, but the bimbo's missing cell phone being her priority made the kids sitting ducks far easier for Ramos.
I've left items in my car and went back for them, when students are on campus I lock the gate to the parking lot plain and simple. If I am on a campus where you have the only parking lot in the office, I go through the office and not a side door that trips an alarm (this has happened with co-workers several times and I think by me on accident once during the COVID shutdown on a day I needed to get out of the house when the school reopened to help clean up the classroom and organize items for students.) As stated, I will re-think propping the door during bodybreaks (the only time I do it.)
As for the rooms, that is another Captain Hindsight comment. Of course we know now with 20/20 hindsight that the shooter got into room 111/2 (they were adjoining rooms which is not too uncommon.) Who's to say that shooter didn't get into room 110/3 instead? Who's to say he just went into a room that had three classrooms worth of students and staff in and had a higher bodycount. We don't know. The best we know is what happened because we can "What if" this to death, the fact is it is still 19 children who won't ever get to grow up, be cool and become contributing members of society, two staff who died defending their children and countless others who are broken because they saw their friends die.
As for the rooms, that is another Captain Hindsight comment. Of course we know now with 20/20 hindsight that the shooter got into room 111/2 (they were adjoining rooms which is not too uncommon.) Who's to say that shooter didn't get into room 110/3 instead? Who's to say he just went into a room that had three classrooms worth of students and staff in and had a higher bodycount. We don't know. The best we know is what happened because we can "What if" this to death, the fact is it is still 19 children who won't ever get to grow up, be cool and become contributing members of society, two staff who died defending their children and countless others who are broken because they saw their friends die.
Had the door been blasted open, the staff would have heard, and it may have led to a better result.
Of course, to the bimbo, her cell phone mattered most.
Bullying prevention, I have heard a link of bullying with some school shooters and other mass shooters, but it is more of a case of correlation, not causation because the link hasn't been confirmed. I'm not saying it doesn't, but we haven't clearly see that it does. I mean it is one of many Adverse Childhood Experiences (or ACEs) that can cause trauma that may create the next school shooter. ACEs has a strong correlation to school shootings than bullying. ACEs can include various forms of verbal, physical and sexual assault whether it is at school, the family or whatever; as well as poverty; divorce; drug issues; mental illness in the family; and imprisionment of a family member. FYI my ACEs Score is 1 and my Resilence Score is 12. If you want to find out your's click here.
But my score of 2 and 6 was absolutely meaningless to me. There was nothing in the surveys about how traumatic your childhood experiences were outside the home. Kids at school traumatized me by repeatedly telling me how ugly my face was, or calling me names like the beak for starters. Girls in high school told me I looked like an abortion that lived. It left me feeling unfit to be around people, because I didn't want to be around people with ugly faces myself. It scared me for life. My parents and other relatives never told me I had an ugly face. So, they never made my presence at home feel unwelcome.
Some kids bullied against want to lash back at the world in a violent way. Other kids just want to withdraw from the world by staying mostly at home to seek relief from the hatred bullies want to heap upon them. I was of the latter. Anyway, it would be great if schools would do more to stop bullying. Not everybody can look cute in the face.
But my score of 2 and 6 was absolutely meaningless to me. There was nothing in the surveys about how traumatic your childhood experiences were outside the home. Kids at school traumatized me by repeatedly telling me how ugly my face was, or calling me names like the beak for starters. Girls in high school told me I looked like an abortion that lived. It left me feeling unfit to be around people, because I didn't want to be around people with ugly faces myself. It scared me for life. My parents and other relatives never told me I had an ugly face. So, they never made my presence at home feel unwelcome.
Some kids bullied against want to lash back at the world in a violent way. Other kids just want to withdraw from the world by staying mostly at home to seek relief from the hatred bullies want to heap upon them. I was of the latter. Anyway, it would be great if schools would do more to stop bullying. Not everybody can look cute in the face.
That was a single set of ACEs and I swear I've seen tests with more. I agree, I would have a higher ACEs score with school events listed.
That was a single set of ACEs and I swear I've seen tests with more. I agree, I would have a higher ACEs score with school events listed.
The ACEs test covered physical abuse in the home but did not ask questions about emotional abuse. Just because a child is not physically abused by an adult in the home doesn't mean there was an absence of abuse. My maternal grandfather was murdered when my adoptive mother was five and it greatly affected her mental health. Unfortunately, as the only female child in the home, I caught the brunt of her attacks.
The latest atrocities in Uvalde, Texas highlight a recurring problem; lots of security theater, little security. Uvalde and other schools have all the right security apparatus; single, usually closed entrance, and SWAT drills to practice handling an active shooter. As we now learn, see , ‘Wrong decision, period’: Top Texas cop admits cops botched Uvalde school responseand Texas Gov. Abbott ‘misled,’ ‘livid’ about cops’ delayed response to school shooting (link) the police didn't exactly rush in. Understandable, perhaps; they didn't plan on dying. We make entering schools by law-abiding people an audition for the gong show, yet Salvador Ramos gets a clean shot at lots of people, twenty-one of whom are now dead.
Round and round and round we go. Back in 2016 I posted on the issue of "security theater." Wyckoff Police Chief Benjamin Fox takes leave after profiling email(excerpt):Back in 2015 I went to drop a cell phone off for my son at his high school. He had called and I said I would leave it at the principal's office. I was greeted at the front door by a friendly and pleasant security guard. I had to leave it with him. We got to talking. I pointed out that back in the day I visited my high school alma mater and went right to teachers' offices, and to my old club offices. Now that would be impossible. He pointed out that there used to be all kinds of entrances and exits that people could use. Now every entrance is a cluster and a delay, all because of the one-off incident in Sandy Hook. We went centuries before Sandy Hook without such rules; are there suddenly hundreds of monsters out there that would kill children? Remember most such tragedies, such as Columbine, involve current students, not outsiders.
Another posting was about a Disabled St. Jude patient who was apparently badly mistreated by the TSA in Tennessee. I have thought long and hard about these issues and started several threads over the last year on this subject. Specifically I wonder why sophisticated, intelligent and busy people, whose time is valuable, don't object to the TSA gelling up the air travel system, with little gain as to stopping terrorism. People meekly take off their shoes, since one person approximately fifteen years ago, The Shoe Bomber's World, tried to blow up a plane with a bomb hidden in his sneaker. Presumably a similar response to the December 25, 2009 Underwear bomber attack would have imposed some difficulties so nothing similar was done to require people to fully disrobe at airports.
Lots of security theater; little actual security.
" usually closed entrance,
"Lots of security theater; little actual security"
I see you want to blame the police AND NOT the IDIOT TEACHER, and we trust our kids to these imbeciles, who left the door OPEN!!!!!
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