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It'd be great to see more men step up and adopt more "traditionally" masculine traits...positive masculine traits. Valor, loyalty, perseverance, responsibility, horse sense, courage, etc.
Yes!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saint-Ex
To be a man is, precisely, to be responsible. It is to feel shame at the sight of what seems to be unmerited misery. It is to take pride in a victory won by one's comrades. It is to feel, when setting one's stone, that one is contributing to the building of the world.
If you can't read the smaller white text, it says "Nazi Norms And Values - And Our Own"
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Quote:
He suggests that the human admiration for success and contempt for failure are symptomatic of this tendency.
Oh yes, absolutely, we should be good progressives and admire failure and have contempt for success. Stop requiring those hard subjects in school, for starters.
Full disclosure: This link was in my original posting. I changed it because I found a better cover to post from another site (bokus.com). I changed the link to reflect the source of the image.
Beyond this, and to get back to the OP, I took this line of thinking one step further with several questions:
1. What purpose does contempt for weakness serve?
2. Is our contempt simply our basebrain animalist impulse's inability to distinguish between "inability to stop a bad thing" with "consciously and deliberately allowing (or wishing) for that bad thing to happen"?
Taking it still one step further.
Which really is worse, human extinction? Or a cruel and callous future humanity (essentially a predatory reptile with an oversized brain and complex tool kit set)?
It is the nature of humans, and all social mammals, to protect the group members who are weak because they are young. This is a powerful basic mammal instinct.
But weakness is never admired, and there is no reason it should be admired. Progressives have now gone completely off the deep end with this. We are supposed to think it's just as good to be autistic as "neurotypical." We are not supposed to see anything wrong with being fat, or bad at sports, or bad at math, etc. Everyone is perfect, everyone gets a trophy.
This philosophy denies everything that is most basic about the world. If you get rewarded for failing, and hated for succeeding, then why try?
I can understand wanting to moderate natural human cruelty to some degree. But the Left's attempts at being humane wind up being as cruel as the cruelty they were trying to fight.
It’s one thing to not vote for Trump. It’s another be a deranged clown who says they don’t hate him but stoops to the lowest form of insults about him or his family.
Trump “haters†are insecure jealous spineless cowards that know the Biden admin is a disaster but they have no one they’d like for POTUS so they can’t stop talking about a guy they wish would have run as a democrat in 2016.
Trump “haters†have zero class and character. I’m talking about the usual spineless TDSers where it’s not enough to state proven facts they don’t like about Trump, they have to lie about him.
If you hate Trump because of what’s he’s done or said or the way he looks, why do you have to lie about him? Why not stick with proven facts? Witch hunts are done by cowards who are afraid of Trump. You know they’re witch hunts yet you don’t care.
But if it wasn’t for the psycho Trump TDSers on CD, POC wouldn’t be nearly as entertaining. And these weak TDSers are part of the reason Trump is going to win again in 2024 just as he did in 2016 and 2020. You had to cheat to beat Trump and you don’t care that that’s what it took to get a tomato puppet and this disastrous corrupt admin into the WH.
Give yourself a pat on the back the next time you go fill your tank. You rather have an effed up economy than Trump as POTUS. He hasn’t been POTUS since the tomato sleazed into the WH but you can’t stop talking about Trump. So Trump must be doing a lot of good. I feel stronger about him than I have in the past.
Keep crying and screaming about Trump as you did the night he won in 2016. The most entertaining election night ever.
Most violent crimes are committed by young males, around age 18 to 34 or so. But males of any age tend to have more of an interest in violence than females.
I believe this is how we are programmed as a species. Males had the job of defending the tribe, while females focused on protecting helpless babies.
The instinct to nurture and protect a small helpless creature is stronger in women. The instinct to ignore pain and danger and battle enemies is stronger in men.
These are obvious facts. But progressive ideology has been hiding from these facts for a while now. Instead of admiring the natural toughness of typical males, they want to turn men into psychological women.
Toughness and the ability to tolerate pain is not valued anymore. The same person who cries about how badly the Native Americans were treated by the settlers would be appalled by the extreme toughness of male Native Americans back then.
I believe the Trump phenomenon is largely motivated by a desire for male toughness, both from men and from women who love men.
Maybe one reason progressives hate Trump so much is his tough guy persona. And that might be one reason his followers love him so much.
I would say men tend to be more up front and brute with their violence. With some exceptions, I notice that many women can be just as violent as men, but in different ways. Men commit more murders than women, that is indeed true. However, I notice violence from men tends to be faster, more immediate, and more "in your face".
Traditionally, men have been the providers and the protectors, and women have done the nurturing. However, when it comes to violence and murder, this is my perspective. It's not always about the instinct to provide and protect. Murder, to me, is about anger, hatred, vindictiveness, the "it's my way or the highway" mentality.
I think about this. When it comes to female killers throughout history, alot of them tended to be sneaky, and use weapons like knives, axes, poison, blunt force objects far more than guns. Lizzie Borden killed people with an axe. And per capita, women kill more children than men do.
I think about the ability to value enduring pain. I find it ironic that you mention this. This is partly what I see. People who made their living in really difficult, physically taxing occupations aren't valued as much, at least by those who work in white collar occupations. And the same could be said by those who work in the physically taxing jobs. With the economy changing and with more jobs requiring brain than brawn, of course the ability to endure physical pain isn't valued as much. If you don't have to endure that, why would you? And given so many medical advances, the question is "Why should you have to endure? Why not get the medical treatment you need so that you can get better?".
In my opinion, it's about who feels left behind by a changing economy. I think about this. Playing football is about being able to endure pain, big time. Think about how many hits a person takes, and often. Hockey requires toughness.
Furthermore, I think about this. Alot of Black men have had to learn how to endure all kinds of pain, both physical and mental. And have had to do so from day one. Black men are the least likely of any male demographic to vote for Trump. This whole "male toughness" phenomenon, I see it far more among White males than any other male demographic. I think this is more about young, conservative, working class White males than anyone else. I don't hear many Black men (outside of those born before 1960) talking about society being "feminized".
Trump's "tough guy" persona is more about a persona than anything real. Trump has never done any real physical labor for a living. He is as white collar as any tech worker. Furthermore, he comes from money. He wouldn't know what it is to work in a coal mine breathing coal dust (I don't either). I wouldn't know what it is to work in a landscaping job (I worked doing some landscaping. I wasn't very good at it and got let go). He wouldn't know what it is to work on a ranch or the oil rigs. He wouldn't know anything about working in a shipyard (I have a relative who works in a ship yard, and he hates Trump).
As for that murder stat, I'll bite. And as a Black man, it's one of those things that when I talk about, I'm trying to be careful, as to not attract those who only seek to race bait. Here goes. At least 50% of all murders in America are Black on Black. Majority of the perpetrators are young Black males Majority of the victims are young Black males. It has very little to do with the desire to "restore manliness". It has alot to do with anger. There is a big "disrespect me and you die" mentality among the individuals who have committed murders. There is also gang activity to consider. Gangs fighting for drug turf. Gang members murdering other people due to feeling disrespected. That "don't mess me with or you die" mindset. Among those who live in America's ghettos, there is a prevalent ethos that if you are perceived to be soft, you will get physically beaten or killed. It's kill or be killed. It has nothing to do with ability to endure pain. It has everything to do with setting a precedent of "don't mess with me".
It is the nature of humans, and all social mammals, to protect the group members who are weak because they are young. This is a powerful basic mammal instinct.
But weakness is never admired, and there is no reason it should be admired. Progressives have now gone completely off the deep end with this. We are supposed to think it's just as good to be autistic as "neurotypical." We are not supposed to see anything wrong with being fat, or bad at sports, or bad at math, etc. Everyone is perfect, everyone gets a trophy.
This philosophy denies everything that is most basic about the world. If you get rewarded for failing, and hated for succeeding, then why try?
I can understand wanting to moderate natural human cruelty to some degree. But the Left's attempts at being humane wind up being as cruel as the cruelty they were trying to fight.
Stephen Hawking was never admired, nor should he have been.
The reason we admire the masculine characteristics of young males - resilience, endurance, aggression - is because they were critical for the tribe's survival. But that comes with a pretty large addendum: The characteristics are prized when applied in the tribe's interest. We don't praise the physical strength of the wifebeater or the innate aggression of the armed robber. But we write heroic poems about Horatius at the bridge.
We have always held up as the ideal as a proper man someone who is in control of himself, who does not surrender to impulses. Trump is the exact opposite - he's pure impulse-driven id, lacking in self-control, self-sacrifice, honesty, responsibility. If that's what America sees as masculine, the country is in bad shape.
Everyone has personas, probably more than one, and everyone's personas are to some extent fake.
Trump chooses one kind of tough guy persona. This was seen in The Apprentice when he fired people, for example. And then of course he didn't hesitate to fire people when he was president.
Masculine strength is admired when it helps the social group, and hated when it threatens the social group.
Most violent criminals are young men. Their masculine nature was frustrated somehow, and they turned it against society.
Trump-haters make up all kinds of stories about Trump's personality. In reality, he managed his world leader job effectively. He didn't start any wars or any horrible crises. Things went relatively smoothly until covid. And no one knew how to manage covid. He obviously has as much self control as anyone.
Trump may not be what our own personal interpretations of a so called "Tough guy" are. But he was ballsy and he had leadership qualities and said things that people could relate with. For once we had someone willing to say "America first' or "China is eating our lunch and we are letting them get away with it".
I also believe that Trump gained the support of many of the "Macho" building trades people like the Iron Workers, Boilermakers, Dock Builders and Operating Engineers is because they saw him as one of their own. He might not have been out in field working with them shoulder to shoulder but he served as a leader on many buildings and casinos and other projects. He spoke their language.
Trump knew how to speak their language. Trump didn't speak my language. I'm tough when I need to be. However, I'm cut more from the intellectual cloth. I come from a white collar upbringing. You could tell me "China is eating our lunch" and I'll look at you like you're stupid. For starters, I'm kind of a nerdy person. I grew up reading alot of non-fiction, for the fun of it. You can't speak to me the way you speak to someone who works at the docks. For starters, I read about geopolitics. I expect YOU to be up to speed. Pulling that "tough guy" stuff doesn't work with me. In my home, toughness wasn't always measured by how much pain you could take. It was about how long you could endure until the job was done.
As for that murder stat, I'll bite. And as a Black man, it's one of those things that when I talk about, I'm trying to be careful, as to not attract those who only seek to race bait. Here goes. At least 50% of all murders in America are Black on Black. Majority of the perpetrators are young Black males Majority of the victims are young Black males. It has very little to do with the desire to "restore manliness". It has alot to do with anger. There is a big "disrespect me and you die" mentality among the individuals who have committed murders. There is also gang activity to consider. Gangs fighting for drug turf. Gang members murdering other people due to feeling disrespected. That "don't mess me with or you die" mindset. Among those who live in America's ghettos, there is a prevalent ethos that if you are perceived to be soft, you will get physically beaten or killed. It's kill or be killed. It has nothing to do with ability to endure pain. It has everything to do with setting a precedent of "don't mess with me".
Yes, young black males killing other young black males accounts for a very large percent of murders in this country. And I think it is because of the gang drug culture, that for some reason took hold in poor black neighborhoods. When these young murderers get older, they stop wanting to kill.
Instead of trying to find the real reasons for black violence, systemic racism is blamed. So the problem can never be solved, since racism is obviously not the cause.
Blacks are more likely to resent white cops, and white cops are more likely to be suspicious of young black men. For very good reasons. (However, white cops are NOT more likely to kill black suspects, that is a myth.)
It is the drug and gang culture, where violence is the acceptable way of resolving differences. These young men prove themselves and find self worth by being violent.
You want this culture of violence to end? Stop blaming racism and stop blaming white cops. We don't know why George Floyd was killed (or died), so why did almost everyone assume it was racism?
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