Are you for or against Universal Healthcare? (New York, campaign, comparison)

[geeoro]

Some people on here are terrified that they will not be able to "opt out" of a UHC system. Why would you want to "opt out" of a system that will allow you and every single member of your family to use it AND also get your Private Mecdical Insurance, if you so wish, at a much lower monthly payment than you are paying now for just private health for yourself only? Do you "Opt Out" of Taxes for Educatio, even if you don't have any Children? Do you "opt Out" of taxes that pay for disasters in other countries? Do you "opt Out" of HOA's fees, even if you live somewhere else most of the time? Maybe it's just fear of the unknown or maybe it's the "i'm ok JAck" Syndrome.
To hold on to a failing health system that is expensive and loaded with pre requisites as to whether you will be covered or not is just plain Dumb.
As far as whether i can talk about the USA System.... I now am a US resident and also a UK citizen. I am involved with both systems. I can from personal experience of both, give a valid judgement call on both Systems. Unlilke Greatday and others of his "ilk" who can only talk about a UHC from snippets of articles that they read or from "hearsay".
As stated before, The UHC can be implemented in the USA and any Laws that need to be amended to do so, can be Amended with no problem. To force a country to have Private Health cover as its main source of health care is probably not only morally wrong but putti8ng Americans Health in the Hands of CEO's and big Corporations and NOT in the hands of the Health Professionals. Don't say that Doctors have a say in your Health because the Doctors are dictated to by the Insurance Companies. They either "tow the line" or don't get paid.

[paullySC]

Originally Posted by geeoro

Some people on here are terrified that they will not be able to "opt out" of a UHC system. Why would you want to "opt out" of a system that will allow you and every single member of your family to use it AND also get your Private Mecdical Insurance, if you so wish, at a much lower monthly payment than you are paying now for just private health for yourself only? Maybe it's just fear of the unknown.
To hold on to a failing health system that is expensive and loaded with pre requisites as to whether you will be covered or not is just plain Dumb.
As far as whether i can talk about the USA System.... I now am a US resident and also a UK citizen. I am involved with both systems. I can from personal experience of both, give a valid judgement call on both Systems. Unlilke Greatday and others of his "ilk" who can only talk about a UHC from snippets of articles that they read or from "hearsay".
As stated before, The UHC can be implemented in the USA and any Laws that need to be amended to do so, can be Amended with no problem. To force a country to have Private Health cover as its main source of health care is probably not only morally wrong but putti8ng Americans Health in the Hands of CEO's and big Corporations and NOT in the hands of the Health Professionals. Don't say that Doctors have a say in your Health because the Doctors are dictated to by the Insurance Companies. They either "tow the line" or don't get paid.

I don't care what country you lived in. Doesn't mean you have any clue what it takes to fund, sustain, build, legislate, or administrate a country wide system. And I doubt you do. As a matter of fact I will assert you absolutely don't. Our system needs to be reformed, but not government controlled and not with more government administration.

[Greatday]

Originally Posted by geeoro

Some people on here are terrified that they will not be able to "opt out" of a UHC system. Why would you want to "opt out" of a system that will allow you and every single member of your family to use it AND also get your Private Mecdical Insurance, if you so wish, at a much lower monthly payment than you are paying now for just private health for yourself only? Maybe it's just fear of the unknown.
To hold on to a failing health system that is expensive and loaded with pre requisites as to whether you will be covered or not is just plain Dumb.
As far as whether i can talk about the USA System.... I now am a US resident and also a UK citizen. I am involved with both systems. I can from personal experience of both, give a valid judgement call on both Systems. Unlilke Greatday and others of his "ilk" who can only talk about a UHC from snippets of articles that they read or from "hearsay".
As stated before, The UHC can be implemented in the USA and any Laws that need to be amended to do so, can be Amended with no problem. To force a country to have Private Health cover as its main source of health care is probably not only morally wrong but putti8ng Americans Health in the Hands of CEO's and big Corporations and NOT in the hands of the Health Professionals. Don't say that Doctors have a say in your Health because the Doctors are dictated to by the Insurance Companies. They either "tow the line" or don't get paid.

Your above comments show, once again, you know little of how our system - our laws in the United States work. You state that our laws can be "amended" "with no problem" - your first error. A Constitutional Amendment or Amendments is far from "no problem". They take many, many years to get even considered.

The litigation alone will take 20 to 30 years.

And, why would someone want to "opt out" of a government program? Freedom. Individual Freedom. Something that you are unfamiliar with obviously.

You will find that millions will not only "opt out" but not pay into a government program - and there will be little, if anything, that the government can do about it -

And, I know far more about the proposals in the US than you do sir. For the last 3 years - I have given of my time, at my own expense, to participate in a citizens group, at the request of the United States House of Representatives, to study the various worlds programs, study the US health care system and make recommendations to the Congress on suggested changes. Those recommendations are being written as we speak, and will be introduced in the new Congress. So, take your demeaning and derogatory comments and stick it where the sun don't shine!

Get educated on our system - our government - our Constitution. Also, when you can vote in the United States - then, and only then, will you truly be able to "get involved".

[cjma79]

Some people on here are terrified that they will not be able to "opt out" of a UHC system. Why would you want to "opt out" of a system that will allow you and every single member of your family to use it AND also get your Private Mecdical Insurance,
Because we want freedom,, if we cant opt out then it wouldnt be freedom.

if you so wish, at a much lower monthly payment than you are paying now for just private health for yourself only? Maybe it's just fear of the unknown.
This is 100% false.. if you dont pay for it one way you pay for it by taxes,, Nothing is free..

To hold on to a failing health system that is expensive and loaded with pre requisites as to whether you will be covered or not is just plain Dumb.
Hey if you dont know what you are talking about please dont,, where are you getting this information from... failing health system??? and what pre-requisites are you talking about, I dont know any of them..


As far as whether i can talk about the USA System.... I now am a US resident and also a UK citizen. I am involved with both systems. I can from personal experience of both, give a valid judgement call on both Systems.
with your comments is clear you dont know what you are talking about..

Unlilke Greatday and others of his "ilk" who can only talk about a UHC from snippets of articles that they read or from "hearsay".
Are they true??? Or are this false, that is the point...

As stated before, The UHC can be implemented in the USA and any Laws that need to be amended to do so, can be Amended with no problem.
Is the constitution not a simple laws..

To force a country to have Private Health cover as its main source of health care is probably not only morally wrong but putti8ng Americans Health in the Hands of CEO's and big Corporations and NOT in the hands of the Health Professionals.
Oh, and i guess is better in the Hands of the government like in UK???

Don't say that Doctors have a say in your Health because the Doctors are dictated to by the Insurance Companies. They either "tow the line" or don't get paid.
False,, I really like your comments, it really shows how very little you know of how our health care works... And you are trying to tell me you have being involved with our system???

[geeoro]

Big Smile here!!! I have listed all the relevant arguments against a UHC in America.... and still have a blank page. Many Private A&E Depts are now virtually Bankrupt.... Not in trouble huh? Patients are dying in Ambulances being shuttled from one Hospital to the next as there are no Beds.
A young girl recently was approved for a life saving operation... the operation was rescheduled. Because it was rescheduled, the Insurance Company Denied the Operation. Only because of Media intervention, did the operation go ahead.... Not decided by Doctors but by the Insurance Company.
I can only feel that to be forced to only get good health care if you pay for private health is "being Forced" No "opt out" there.
America can land on Mars but can't sort it's huge Health Problem???? Maybe it's just the Fear of the already insured that the whole country might be given the same health care that they get? Only Possible reason.

[cjma79]

Big Smile here!!! I have listed all the relevant arguments against a UHC in America....
Where is the list???

and still have a blank page.
are you sure?? hey you havent said anything from my post of UK health system,, that you say that is great and perfect.. and nobody gets deny anything...

Many Private A&E Depts are now virtually Bankrupt....
You know,, when I say something I usually have some type of information or a like to the information,, where is yours??? so many comments from you without any actuall facts

Not in trouble huh? Patients are dying in Ambulances being shuttled from one Hospital to the next as there are no Beds.
Again where do you get this information,,, again where is the link,, and emergency room dont deny people because of beds,, they will take the patient treat the patient and if their is not bed in the Internal Medicine floor or Intensive Care then they will send the patient to another hospital..AGAIN ONCE THE PATIENT HAS BEEN TREATED AND STABILIZED.


A young girl recently was approved for a life saving operation... the operation was rescheduled. Because it was rescheduled, the Insurance Company Denied the Operation.
Where is the evidence please???

Only because of Media intervention, did the operation go ahead.... Not decided by Doctors but by the Insurance Company.
Again where is the evidence,, if it is true,, at least when the media gets involved things gets done,, in the UK the government doesnt care,,, have you read my post about your UK system??

I can only feel that to be forced to only get good health care if you pay for private health is "being Forced" No "opt out" there.
Good Health Care,, like the UK deny everything left and right???


America can land on Mars but can't sort it's huge Health Problem????
please.. what one has to do with the other...

Maybe it's just the Fear of the already insured that the whole country might be given the same health care that they get? Only Possible reason.
No the only possible reason is simple.. we dont want our government in our health care system.. We dont want our government(that cant do anything right) in charge who gets treat and who doesnt(like in the UK, where if you smoke you cant get surgery). Need I say more???

[jimboburnsy]

Originally Posted by happ

It will be the defining accomplishment of President-to-be Obama in his first term. And people will once again ask why none of these critical services were never addressed by President Bush? But, instead, put the nation in bankruptcy b/c of the fool's war.

What does universal healthcare mean to the quality of care that we will receive?

It means that you are standardizing all hospitals to the level of care you would receive at the hospitals people with insurance avoid. It means that surgeons will have their income adjusted to below 6 figures. It means that the best and brightest in the future will avoid the medical profession. It means that the best doctors currently in practice will cut all ties with surgical hospitals and organize specialty clinics where they can operate on a cash-only basis.

Universal health care sounds wonderful and oh-so-very fair. Fairness sounds great, right? Sure it does. The reality of "fair medical care" is not that everyone gets the best care available on the government's dime (which is actually YOUR dime), but rather that everyone has the least common denominator available to them on your dime. This is a bullsh*t idea that will ruin our medical system. You can't make it cheap without making it terrible.

[Tom9]

Many people are put off by the terminology which has been cleverly designed to represent things that we dislike inherently. For example, if we say national health plan instead of socialized medicine it would be more acceptable to a larger group of people. It's like using the word corporatism instead of the word fascism. I know this needs more of an explanation must most of you can figure it out.

We also need to understand that a national health plan does not have to do away with private health insurance. We need to understand that there are many more options than the Canadian system.

We also need to be shown that our taxes will not be any higher than they are now. The ERs, the uninsured all cost us money but we are not really aware of where it comes from. Of course responsible government is a must and we haven't had a fiscally responsible government in almost 50 years. The lobbies need to be controlled. These lobbyist as we have seen are NOT interested in the well being of the populace. They are money grubbing thieves. Just look how many have crossed the line and are condemned. Unfortunately the punishment is a slap on the writ and no more in most cases.

At this point we have under the latest estimate since the companies have found a loop-hole that allows them to cancel here-to-for untouchable company health insurance for the retired and there will be more. If this nation is hit by a pandemic, and there are lots of new illnesses out there, we will be devastated because we have done very little planning for such a catastrophe.

If you think that national health is a thing of the left you are mistaken. Francisco Franco who summarily executed communists and socialist for years and was a rabid anti-communist instituted the first national health plan Spain ever had and for many of the reasons I mentioned above and more.


Many say they do not want to pay for other people. I hear this over and over. That type of selfishness under the present conditions of the Republic is really anti-American. We are great at nationalism but terrible at true patriotism. A good American is not afraid of or adverse to sacrificing for the well being of the nation. The problem exists at the federal government level. Government people abuse the system and stuff their pockets and those of their allies to the detriment of the nation. They go unpunished and so the illness of corruption festers and grows. This is where severe punishment, even the ultimate punishment will become a deterrent. But we continue to let people off the hook for major infractions so they continue to commit them.

There's more but I hate long posts so I'll give it a rest here.

[Bideshi]

I am for absolutely. Get the HMOs, trial lawyers, AMA and insurance companies off our backs and out of our pocketbooks. We have the worst healthcare system of any developed nation on Earth and worse than many in underdeveloped countries. When people have to fly to India for affordable healthcare it's way past time to change things.

[Tom9]

Originally Posted by Bideshi

I am for absolutely. Get the HMOs, trial lawyers, AMA and insurance companies off our backs and out of our pocketbooks. We have the worst healthcare system of any developed nation on Earth and worse than many in underdeveloped countries. When people have to fly to India for affordable healthcare it's way past time to change things.

Very true with regard to the "para-medical" profession like the insurance companies. Prohibit any lobbying by or for the health insurance companies and the AMA. Other forms of insurance can be lobbied without detriment to the health of the people. If the health insurance companies don't like it then they will have to diversify. BUT in favor of the doctors and hospitals put a cap of $300,000 on malpractice law suits and institute a total tort reform across the board not only in medical cases but PI etc. Here is where we truly need a citizens watch group.