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I think while both definitely got a very short stick compared to the white settlers, the clear loser of them all was the Indians.
Slavery is horrible, and we should be ashamed as a nation of allowing it, but it's not as bad as genocide. When you're enslaved, you can still hope to be freed, sing, have a family, enjoy nature, and know you'll have a legacy (which blacks do in this country and Native Americans don't).
The Indians were basically exterminated like rodents. Could you imagine strangers from another continent telling you your way of life sucked, and you had to believe in their God, and follow their lifestyle, or die? If you DID do this, you still might die. White people embraced African American culture, and it's strong to this day, especially in music where it DOMINATES outside of rock. What do the Indians have? Place names? Casinos? Chapters in history books? That's about it. They're foreigners in their own land to people who are themselves foreigners from the other half of the world.
The only reason blacks are seen as being more oppressed is because they lived to tell about their plight. The Native Americans don't even get that privilege.
I think the both got a really raw deal. I think that the natives got it a little worse, they were pretty much exterminated in near genocide proportions since the time of columbus.
I notice you failed to both list those "Indian" tribes exterminated by the colonists in the US and you failed to list those "Indian" tribes exterminated by "Indian" tribes.
What are you trying to hide?
most native american tribes. the navajos cherokees, sioux, Hopi, Apache,Nez perce, etc.
Isn't the OP the one who said on the slavery thread that this country would have been better off (without all those black folks being here)? Don't feed the trolls.
Its invidious to try to make comparisons. What do you make of the many black folks who intermarried with the aboriginal Americans?
I think this entire thread is pretty trollish -- Everyone killed everyone else for reasons that by today's standards are no reasons at all. It just so happens that the white man was better at killing than the aborigines or the African transplants. Something about them being... more civilized? (if you can call it that?)
And what makes us so much better than our forefathers? We're (America) still killing people around the world in wars that are only barely justified because the media manages to sell it to the American public and the American public doesn't like to think for itself; mind you that's not true of everyone -- of course there are always exceptions to the rule, and it's not as though it's ENTIRELY the public's fault.. the media does play a big role in choosing which stories to air and which not to.
I guess the summation of my argument? Don't feed the trolls.
Good question, MimzyMusic, but nearly impossible to say what's the worst American atrocity: enslaving a whole race or exterminating our American ancestors
The only honorable thing to do is make sure this never happens again by investing big money into improving education of all economically deprived youth. The best restitution America can pay is giving people a real chance to improve themselves.
Good question, MimzyMusic, but nearly impossible to say what's the worst American atrocity: enslaving a whole race or exterminating our American ancestors
The only honorable thing to do is make sure this never happens again by investing big money into improving education of all economically deprived youth. The best restitution America can pay is giving people a real chance to improve themselves.
Well said.
Shall we go in to a discussion on education as well?
personally, I think they should do away with the bureaucracy of government backed, compulsory education -- privatize it and work in some sort of education subsidy in to the tax code. This is obviously not a fully fleshed out idea, but a rough idea to, at least, *try* and improve the quality of education our youth receives.
I think the first question that must be answered is "is it better to live an uncomfortable life free or an easy life enslaved?" That exposes your priorities. Me? While in sound mind without any sense of coercion, I'd prefer the difficult life that's free.
According to Zinn, in his "A People's History of the U.S." (idiotic conclusions, but good report of the events), the Natives were killed and moved along because they couldn't be used as slaves. They'd sooner die-- and frequently did-- before they'd succumb to the expectations of slave life.
According to Douglass, in his "My Bondage and My Freedom" (an emotionally tormenting autobiography of his slavery), the blacks generally chose to be slaves rather than risk their lives for freedom. (That's an immense over-simplification, but, for the sake of this thread, no more need be said.)
If you take their reports to be accurate, they both received what they preferred, and, therefore, were treated the same by whites... It was their choice how they'd respond.
It's a shameful time in our history. Which was more wrong? I think slavery... it's disgusting in every form imaginable. Taking land? That's normal... but taking generation after generation of babies and using them as livestock... The Native died once, but the slaves were locked in their torment over and over... but then again, they chose not to fight, so, although a despicable act by the slavers, does it really matter that people who chose to cooperate with that life didn't like it? I don't know... because they're doing it to themselves now, so should anyone really care?
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