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What I find interesting is the relationship whites have with both groups.
With Indians there's a certain amount of romanticism with them and their culture. Many whites will not hesitate to admit if they have some Indian blood. Whites have had less of a problem mixing with Indians. I guess this is because a white person can admit to having Indian Blood and still be white.
Now with Blacks whites enjoy Black musical creativity and athlecticism but not too many whites will admit they have Black blood because of what that would mean. Mixing with Blacks has been more of a problem than doing this with Indians.
Anyway my point is that even though both groups have dealt with oppression from whites,whites seem to have a particular relationship with both groups.
I think Native Americans got it worse because some people just came and took over their land. Most of North America used to alll belong to the NAtive Amerians but know its only a small fraction. We were disrespected killed and forced into camps. Where there were dieseases brought by the Spaniards,and Europeans. The trail of tears for example, the long walk.Both The Native americans and the blacks were treated horribly.
I realize that this is going to come off as very arrogant and perhaps demeaning, but I honestly don't mean to. I think that slavery to the African Americans is the best thing that has ever happened to them (today, not back then). Would they be better off in their homeland, or here in America? Just look at the horrible situation going on in the majority of African countries today. It is simply barbaric how much of these nations treat their people. Genocide, mass rape, disease, poverty, starvation. Even in industrialized African nations, these problems exist.
In terms of who had it worse back then, I believe the Natives did. While I won't say the land belongs to anyone, they were here first and they had everything taken away from them by force. That would definitely break my spirit. Slaves had it pretty harsh too.
You know what though? If you talked to the ancestors of a lot of Americans, you will find out that whites had it just as bad in many European countries. Don't talk about slavery to a Polak, it is in their blood. Serfdom is the same concept as slavery.
The Native Americans don't even get that privilege.
.. read this ..
Mc Cain was talking on the Republican Convention ..
"Americas was maked for Freedom !""
.. when America was founded .. the first what they was doing .. to send the Army to the native Americans , the Indian , and they cilled them all ..
nice America .. that`s freedom ????
I realize that this is going to come off as very arrogant and perhaps demeaning, but I honestly don't mean to. I think that slavery to the African Americans is the best thing that has ever happened to them (today, not back then). Would they be better off in their homeland, or here in America? Just look at the horrible situation going on in the majority of African countries today. It is simply barbaric how much of these nations treat their people. Genocide, mass rape, disease, poverty, starvation. Even in industrialized African nations, these problems exist.
In terms of who had it worse back then, I believe the Natives did. While I won't say the land belongs to anyone, they were here first and they had everything taken away from them by force. That would definitely break my spirit. Slaves had it pretty harsh too.
You know what though? If you talked to the ancestors of a lot of Americans, you will find out that whites had it just as bad in many European countries. Don't talk about slavery to a Polak, it is in their blood. Serfdom is the same concept as slavery.
I agree completely with this statement. Particularly the bolded part. The majority of the African countries are in a mess. And I don't know any African American that wants to return to Africa and live there. It's a much better life for them to stay in America.
I agree completely with this statement. Particularly the bolded part. The majority of the African countries are in a mess. And I don't know any African American that wants to return to Africa and live there. It's a much better life for them to stay in America.
That in no way justifies slavery. But I think if you put it into perspective in such a way, the Native Americans have fared off worse than the African Americans.
Of course, nothing can justify slavery, but one group of humans bullying and dominating another group of human beings has gone on since ancient times. The more powerful take advantage from the weaker or less advanced peoples. Some of this done in the name of their gods.
I think the first question that must be answered is "is it better to live an uncomfortable life free or an easy life enslaved?" That exposes your priorities. Me? While in sound mind without any sense of coercion, I'd prefer the difficult life that's free.
Overall I think the entire argument of who had it worse is on the whole ridiculous but all the same...
That depends on how you choose to define freedom does it not? African Americans were bound to their owners. Natives were bound to the rez under guard (usually). They were corralled like cattle and held in a pen that was nothing more than an outdoor prison.
In some cases, some Natives could leave the rez but they were as limited in their choices outside of the rez as African Americans were. Because Natives were then bound to the rez they were limited in their ability to trade which in turn limited their ability to both grow and have a sustainable way of life - a very simplified construct of a complicated whole. In just as many instances there were/are tribes who were relocated to a place that was unable to support crop life which again limited food amongst other things.
For those nomadic tribes who had previously moved to different spots with the seasons, locations that were ideally suited to the weather and land, they were then forced into one place where they had no real viable options for a continued future. One can make the argument of adapt or die but that is a narrow argument. One can adapt but so much to conditions that are inhospitable to food growth or do not have wildlife that naturally roams through the area which can supplement both stock goods and food stuffs. Tribes were forced to rely on the Feds for food, shelter items, blankets, and other basic necessities. Is that better than slavery or another type of?
Where does adapt or die beyond the obvious begin and end when there is more than one type of death? There is death in life but there is also the death in way of life, cultural beliefs, identity and prolonged slavery of another type. We are talking about a people that were confined to a land that they knew their fathers, grandfathers, mothers, aunts and uncles had freely roamed, hunted and lived in. All they could do was look around and remember while knowing they themselves would never do that again. It is worse than being sentenced to life in prison because you know with everything in you that your future generations will spend their lives in that same prison – an infinite repeating pattern. Yet Native culture didn’t just die out it was stamped out.
As time went on children were forcibly taken from the reservation to enter ‘reeducation’ camps or schools as they liked to call them – a practice that began in 1879. In those schools speaking their native tongue was forbidden as was displaying any ties to your culture be they markings, clothing, religion or ceremonies. Children were beaten for doing so. They were beaten for crying for their parents, disobeying and not working hard enough. They were taught English, Christianity and how to integrate with white society as their servants. They had their hair cut and their clothing stripped before being ‘cleaned’ up and dressed in more appropriate white clothing (suits and dresses). Natives were forced to assimilate. Native boarding schools still exist to this day though thankfully most of the schools are now in Native hands.
If we take freedom to mean a people that did not have direct owners that held a lash in their hand then yes African Americans had it worse. If however we take it to mean the freedom to control ourselves, our destines, where we go and live, who we are and how we chose to live without a armed watcher standing over our shoulder then there was no freedom to be had for Natives either.
I think it is also important to note that the very idea Americans have of freedom came from Natives. Our idea of freedom is quite different than the idea of freedom held by Europeans. That is why they look often look at us in confusion, to this day. Natives believe in the good of the collective, yes but they also believe(d) in individuality to a degree that Europeans had never fathomed.
However Blacks have it worse in ONE area. That is culture. Africans were forced to leave most if not ALL of their culture, be it language, religion, societal structure, food, skills, history, etc behind. They were forced to learn English (or French or Spanish) and forbidden to use their native language or to pass it on. To have ones very cultural identity exterminated is a terrible thing.
Go to an "Indian" gathering and in many tribes you will see their traditions, hear stories passed on from mother to daughter for a dozen generations, hear the native language passed on from the lips of father to son, See the same religion that the settlers would have seen practiced when they first came here hundreds of years ago.
The Black community doesn't have that. What little culture remains are the meager remnants and scrapings from the sides of the Slavery blender that chopped up thousands of DIFFERENT African tribes each with their own traditions.
Note that this does not apply to all Blacks in America, just those who are descended from Black Slaves.
Random
Last edited by RandomU; 09-13-2008 at 01:37 PM..
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