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Location: Jonquil City (aka Smyrna) Georgia- by Atlanta
16,259 posts, read 24,790,552 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LauraC
If you call, they have your phone number...sort of like when Obama was running for President and Team Obama conned you all into giving Team Obama your cell phone number for the big announcement. Sure, you got the message but they got a potential donor list of cell phone numbers for the future.
I would not call them from my own phone. I call such people from the fax line at work. That way if they call back, they get a fax in the ear!
Location: Jonquil City (aka Smyrna) Georgia- by Atlanta
16,259 posts, read 24,790,552 times
Reputation: 3587
Quote:
Originally Posted by TriMT7
Why Islam indeed. If I were going to be religious, I think Islam would be my last choice. Just under Jehova's Witness and Mormon on the scale of "yay, what a fun time we're having!"
I don't like any organized religion myself. I think they are all BS. BUt Islam is about the worst of the bunch- followed closely by the Southern Baptist.
I am old enough and remember it, since I closely followed the news of what looked like the most terrible war of the 80 (much bigger then the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan).
Actually there were many protests: mobs in Teheran protesting with Ayatollah Khomeini posters and parallel mobs in Baghdad with Saddam's picture.
With the exception of some mediation attempts by Egypt, the rest of Arab/ Muslim world remained uncharacteristically silent.
The point is not to revoke history, but to explain that change can come only from within. Only muslims can defeat their extremists. Not necessarily by force, but by not cooperating and silently supporting them. By letting extremists know that they are unwelcome in any community. By not sending kids to their madrasa. By not listening to the Imam's venom and by not praying at his mosque. By not buying and displaying their books. Every time a suicide bomber acts in Baghdad, 1000000 muslims should protest openly, denying any support from the family.
Muslims are not the only society to experience extremism. I am sometimes scared by what I read from some Christians. In Israel there are quite powerful fascist groups and extreme religious parties which I call the Israeli Hamas and/or Hesballah. One dear member of such group murdered the Israeli PM in 1995, because God told him to stop all peace negotiations that took place. I will never forget the revolt that followed.
You have a few good points but I think they are seen through an American (i.e. unfocused) lens. For starters, Saddam Hussein saw himself as a moderate secularized Muslim slapping down the extremists throughout the war. The Iranians, on the other hand, were understandably motivated by an attack on their country, not particularly by sympathy for their then-leadership. To attribute either phenomenon to religious extremism is terribly shallow and, as I say, repellently American. And asking what the rest of the "Arab/Muslim world" was supposed to do about it is patronizing. That they largely minded their own business is a tribute to them; we ought to follow their example a hell of a lot more often.
Second, the world is a lot more complicated than one in which good guys of all types fight extremists of all types. There are causes and counter-causes to which people commit for a variety of reasons, and usually there are a fair number of decent people and a fair number of bastards in any of them. I'm not sure what you mean by exhorting Muslims to "protest suicide bombings" in Baghdad. To what end? Nearly all the suicide bombings in Baghdad are aimed at killing other Muslims. How effective is a protest bearing the message "please don't slaughter us anymore" going to be, other than giving the psychos another target?
It's not a "religious procedure". Typical American idiocy not to know that.
American idiocy? You mean to not research a topic? Don't be too hard on yourself, I understand it is much easier to parrot self hating remarks then to debate
At anyrate, here is some Islamic rulings on the subject:
Due to the weakness of the hadîth that refer to female circumcision – with some of their narrators being known for deceptiveness and others whose narrations carry no weight – scholars of Islamic Law have differed widely regarding its legal ruling.
In the Hanafî school of law there are two different opinions. Some Hanafî scholars consider it to be a Sunnah for women. Others consider it to be merely an honorable thing. [refer to: al-Fatâwâ al-Hindiyyah and al-Ikhtiyâr li-Tahlîl al-Mukhtâr]
It is considered a preferred act (mandûb) for women in the Mâlikî school of law. They rely upon the hadîth of Umm `Atiyyah for this ruling. [refer to: Bulghah al-Sâlik li-Aqrab al-Masâlik and Ashal al-Madârik Sharh Irshâd al-Sâlik]
In the Shâfi`î school of law, circumcision is considered an obligation for both men and women. This is the official ruling of that school of thought. Some Shâfi`î scholars express the view that circumcision is obligatory for men and merely Sunnah for women. [refer to: al-Majmû`]
In the Hanbalî school of law, circumcision is obligatory for men and merely an honorable thing for women. It is not obligatory for them. The Hanbalî jurist Ibn Qudâmah observes: “This is the view of many people of knowledge. Imam Ahmad said that it is more emphatic for men.†[al-Mughnî (1/115
And asking what the rest of the "Arab/Muslim world" was supposed to do about it is patronizing. That they largely minded their own business is a tribute to them; we ought to follow their example a hell of a lot more often.
1) They don't mind their business when America or Israel strikes, do they?
2) I hope never to follow their example. I also hope other western countries never do, otherwise we'll all become Iran, Syria, Iraq or Pakistan.
3) As I said earlier, I am convinced that not all muslims are terrorists or demons. And female mutilation is not part of Islam, but is traditionally practiced in some African countries. The majority of muslims are working people with families and everyday worries like everywhere else. However, their collective moral weakness is evident.
At anyrate, here is some Islamic rulings on the subject:
There are some "Islamic rulings" on the proper way to wipe your ass. That does not mean wiping your ass is a religious practice.
Female circumcision existed in Arabia before Islam. It is widely practiced in a number of non-Muslim majority countries, e.g. Central African Republic, Cote d'Ivoire. It is practically unknown in many overwhelmingly Muslim countries, e.g. Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Libya, etc. Try all you want, but linking female circumcision to Islam is simply a mark of an immature or disorganized brain.
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People who fall down wells or lick electrical outlets are just as dead, too. The stoning and sawing off of heads result from a religious belief.
