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Clarification is important. Curriculum is a state and local creation and thus is different from state to state and to a degree withing state. That being said the more money allocated by a state or local to curriculum development will impact the quality of what is developed. Testing is different from state to state and how high the bar is set will be done by the individual state. It is without merit to say that private and public school curriculum is the same for they are not operated by the same entity and private schools don't have federal or state testing accountability. You can't say that testing is driving curriculum and instruction and then say that private and public are the same. You can't have it both ways. No Child Left Behind is not a private school venture. To not consider the impact of Special Education laws and the varying compliance regulations is to miss a major part of the instructional and most importantly financial cost of educational infrastructure. School districts of affluence and those of poverty have similar/different needs and similar/different funding priorities and different funding pools from their states. One high school with 80% of their graduates going to a 4 year college does not have the same needs or priorities of a high school where 15% do. Likewise the school that is 80% FARM (Free And Reduced Meal) has operational needs different then the school that is 3% FARM. The operational environment for rural and suburban schools are very different. Transportation cost in one district can be very different from another etc etc
There is more to the forest than just the tree staring you in the face.
So basically if a school's curriculum is not meeting parents expectations they need to take that up on a state level.. period. Has nothing to do with the Federal government nor the fact that it is private vs. public.
So the parents in Illinois need to go to their state and lobby for a revised curriculum..as to all those in other states that are not satisfied with the curriculum. AND if the state has a minimum curriculum but on a local level want to exceed that minimum then that should be taken up on a local level.
The problem with discussions on American education is assumptions. It is complex and there are many parts that are in play and many of them are political and fiscal.
I support parents having a choice as to how their child is educated.
If the public school in their area is a good one - then fine. If not, the parent should be able to move them to another school. This is not always possible in public school systems.
If a school is not performing, or is replete with violence, give the parent a voucher to allow them to move their child to a private school -
How a child is educated is up to the parents - not the state
OBTW - make teachers perform - or fire them. This does not happen now in most cases.
So the parents in Illinois need to go to their state and lobby for a revised curriculum..l.
And I agree with you on the above.
The problem is however, what about the kids NOW - those in the schools NOW, who are not being educated? Shouldn't the parents, with childen in unperforming public schools, have the right to move their kids to performing schools - public or private?
Let me see now.
Wife is a teacher for hearing impaired. She loves the job and isnt Democrat or Liberal
Daughter is a 4th grade teacher who isnt Democrat or Liberal.
I might also add a recently returned returned army solider with a bronze star and purple heart.
Neither one of them would ever dare espouse idiotic liberal clap trap in school room.
In fact none of the teachers they work with do that.
I should make my point about the testing more clear...the testing should include EVERYTHING (or almost everything) that is within the curriculum. That would give a much clearer picture of whether the schools are doing what they are supposed to.
This isn't about dumbing down the rest for the poor.
Really? Then why is that EXACTLY what has happened?
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There were students that did poorly and there were students that did better than I did in H.S... it didn't effect how I did.. because I did what I did and I had my parents at home helping me achieve. I didn't get "dumbed down" nor did those that performed above what I did (I was a B student, btw.. and could have been an A+ had I applied myself more).
How do you know that? Were you one of the students compared internationally on the TIMSS or the PISA, and you know for a fact that you were among the top performers, internationally? My guess would be no.
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There are a few schools with serious problems.. but there are far many more without those serious problems. Perhaps keep the "voucher" program more regional in the districts with the problems.. but do not try to destroy a working public education system on the national level because certain districts aren't performing as they should...
How do you know they're 'working?' If they were 'working,' as you assert, we wouldn't have seen such a precipitous drop in achievement amongst top students and such a substantial drop amongst mid-level students that BOTH the SAT and ACT had to be renormed to add extra points to the scores to keep the SAT mean at 500 (per section) and the ACT mean at approx. 21. SAT I Mean Score Equivalents
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As for the studies flaws I disagree..in that in THIS study they specifically evaluated the performance on socio economic levels.. and found preciselly what I stated.. that there was NO DIFFERENCE between the private school student of a certain socio economic status when compared to that of it's counterpart in a public SD.
You clearly didn't read the full study, including the LIMITATIONS section, in which it pretty much admits that they manipulated intangible factors that they are unable to adequately quantify - and then didn't read the full report from Harvard which discredits those exact same kinds of manipulations in the NCES study.
Neither one of them would ever dare espouse idiotic liberal clap trap in school room.
I appreciate the above
We have had instances however where teachers, in the classroom, have told students that "they (the teacher) might not be their teacher anymore if their mommies and daddies don't call and get more money for them"
Really? Then why is that EXACTLY what has happened?
THat is NOT what has happened in ALL schools.. WHY can't you GET THAT!!
How do you know that? Were you one of the students compared internationally on the TIMSS or the PISA, and you know for a fact that you were among the top performers, internationally? My guess would be no.
Excuse me.. I didn't compare myself to national or even international students. I was looking right there within my OWN school.. to prove a point.. That how I performed had NOTHING to do with how someone else performed but what I put into it myself.. in otherwords my school had overachievers who excelled , me in the middle and then students who failed or performed poorly and we were all in the same school. The difference between those groups was what they put into their own education and what opportunities they ceased or didn't cease
How do you know they're 'working?' If they were 'working,' as you assert, we wouldn't have seen such a precipitous drop in achievement amongst top students and such a substantial drop amongst mid-level students that BOTH the SAT and ACT had to be renormed to add extra points to the scores to keep the SAT mean at 500 (per section) and the ACT mean at approx. 21. SAT I Mean Score Equivalents
Oh for crying out loud.. WHAT PART OF my posts are you NOT getting. The precipitous drop has NOTHING TO DO WHATSOEVER with the fact that a school is PUBLIC or PRIVATE!!! PERIOD.. LOOK at our culture and the changes in our SOCIETY!!! for the answers to that.. LOOK at what happens in our home life as the answer .. THAT is what makes the difference What of that do you NOT understand.
Home life in the 60's was FAR DIFFERENT than that of today and if you do not think that that affects how students perform in school then I can't help you. You can sit there and think that privitizing schools without changing the CULTURE of our children and the attitudes at home is going make A differenc Again.. kids are too worried about emulating Hannah Montana then they are about their performance in school.
BTW.. parents today rely TOO HEAVILY on schools to raise their children, as opposed to earlier times in our country.
And AGAIN.. I'VE acknowledged that curriculum needs to adjust and change with the times.. BUT AGAIN>> that has NOTHING whatsoever to do with private or public. It can be achieved at the public level.. PERIOD
You clearly didn't read the full study, including the LIMITATIONS section, in which it pretty much admits that they manipulated intangible factors that they are unable to adequately quantify - and then didn't read the full report from Harvard which discredits those exact same kinds of manipulations in the NCES study.
Who gives a hoot and nanny about the damned studies..USE common sense man.. COMMON SENSE!!! Children from good families, stable home life and with educated paretns excell far more than students of parents that are undereducated, uneducated and broken homes!! PERIOD PERIOD PERIOD!!!
Privitizing schools is NOT going to change what goes on AT HOME.. or the ATTITUDE of the children and culture.. PERIOD!!
AGAIN.. one more time just so you understand ;
You all think that privitization and vouchers are going to help you.. and I ask you this..
What happens when that comes to be.. and you have the "high" performing schools with only a certain number of slots. Some put aside for the less fortunate or those that are "poor" to recieve the charity.. then the rest get filled in. Guess who is going to get those "spots".. the people with the deepest pockets!!!!!!!! BECAUSE PRIVITIZATION CARES ONLY ABOUT 1 THING.. The almighty DOLLAR!!
And if you don't have pockets deeper than your neighbor.. then your neighbor is going to get that spot .. the poor kid whos name was picked out of a lotter will get that spot and YOU and YOUR CHILD will be left with the rest..
UNDEFUNDED public schools.. why underfunded.. because public TAX DOLLARS would have been diverted to PRIVATE instituations along with the child!!
THEN guess what.. you think America is underperforming NOW!! LOL Just you wait till it becomes a school system of only those that can pay get educated!!
Make the proper changes and adjustments to the curriculum and methods of teaching IN PUBLIC schools and you'll see a difference..
BUT.. there will still be children underperforming because they are NOT getting the support they need from home.. so those children will be left behind or get to the finish line slower.. and your child, with the proper support and new curriculum.. will move forward.
AND .. BTW.. as was already mentioned .. THIS IS NOT A NATIONAL ISSUE... many schools and district parents are satisfied with their school curriculums.. the curriculum issue is a STATE issue NOT a blanket national issue.. PERIOD!!!
My child will get the curriculum he gets at school AND he'll learn other things I think are important for him to learn right here at home!!! But atleast my child will have access to an education that he can cease and run with.. in a privitization scheme he may be robbed of the opportunity and not have it available to him... as would happen with many other children.
Let me see now.
Wife is a teacher for hearing impaired. She loves the job and isnt Democrat or Liberal
Daughter is a 4th grade teacher who isnt Democrat or Liberal.
I might also add a recently returned returned army solider with a bronze star and purple heart.
Neither one of them would ever dare espouse idiotic liberal clap trap in school room.
In fact none of the teachers they work with do that.
Oh and they both work for a PUBLIC SCHOOL
I totally agree.. I was NEVER taught any right OR left political agenda in school.. I would love to hear an example of something their child picked up that was "leftist" that they learned in school? I think that if religion is not mentioned in school then they consider that being "left"..whereas I consider that being "neutral" neither right nor left??
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they work with do that.
