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it is a stubborn dying dinosaur along with housing projects and AFDC. the rug is about to be pulled out from under the old system. voucher the sooner the better. the evils that occur in the public schools, much of it unreported, should make us ashamed but does not, money does that to people.
1. Public education will always mirror the state of the Middle Class family. Many "problems" ascribed to public ed are in fact caused by the war against the US Middle Class of which Warren Buffett recently spoke.
2. Most "low performing" public schools are in areas abandoned by state/local governments. If you want to help those schools you're going to have to invest in them- not pull $$ away from them.
3. Again vouchers are all about race. I have relatives in SC who for years tried to find a way for the state to pay for their kids' private school, so they would not have to attend schools with black kids. They quickly found that although SC was very receptive to the idea of dumping the public ed system, DC was not. Therefore, getting out of their school taxes was their only option.
Which is why they loved "Leave No Child Behind" (gotta love Madison Ave spin on these names), because the way it is structured (and not funded) 99% of schools will be listed as "underperforming" within the next decade.
4. By what measure are schools failing? Because our jobs are going overseas? That's a trade policy which for the first time in our history has US workers going head-to head (w/o tariffs) against 16 cent per hour labor. Because we rank lower than other countries? Some we do- mostly Scandanavia, where social spending supports average families (in real terms it means they come to school with a full stomach) and all the kids are from the same background.
Most we don't- like China and India who our media says we're behind, but fails to mention that they only educate the elites.
Then, there's the little matter of college. While our corporations (who are always on the lookout for another tax-dodge) may spin how lousy our schools are, they can't spin the fact that after a 4 year college (which used to be affordable to the average person until Ronnie Reagan took the government out of student loans and put the banks in) our grads are the best in the world- which is why China (when they can get out of the dictatorship) and India sends their best and brightest here.
Last edited by Geechie North; 02-16-2009 at 11:51 AM..
Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
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Originally Posted by TristansMommy
AGain.. GD.. I don't argue the merits for you or other local areas where this system could work. But how taxes are distributd and schools are funded vary and it will not work in certain areas.
And.. it will not be wanted in certain areas.. where schools are closely tied into property values. If you suddenly did away with the structure of things , say on Long Island, then you would have many up in arms who paid more for their home to live in a certain district who will now loose that value because it no longer applies. And believe me, where I grew up your property value is closely tied to your home value. You coud have identical homes right next to each other.. one is in one district and one is in the other and the difference in price could be pretty big depending on the disrict.
This has NOTHING to do with what is best for our children's education. If the public school system is working, then the voucher option would not be utilized. Parent's would only use the vouchers if they are unsatisfied with the public school system in their area. What's wrong with giving parents a CHOICE?
Taking all children in a given area isn't the problem. It's how the public schools educate them that has caused/is continuing to cause the achievement declines noted in A Nation At Risk and The Other Crisis in American Education.
If that happens, families can choose a different school.
.
School choice among public schools is a good thing. But you are 100% wrong in the thrust of your arguments.
And when have you, or any other posters here, ever sat in a classroom for a day? Or served on a school board?
A little "real world" can do wonders to empty rhetoric.
Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
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Originally Posted by Greatday
TM - I'm not talking about "problem" students. I'm talking about those who do not have the learning capacity as others. And right now, they cannot be seperated. Classes are "merged". The teachers have to teach to the "lowest" denominator - it adversely affects those students with the stronger learning capacity.
Also, ELL and ESL students are mixed in with those who speak English.
This is precisely why many students who are highly intelligent become underachievers ... They are not stimulated enough in a normal class environment.
Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday
ESL = English as a second language
ELL = English language learners
And, the NATIONAL law requires mixing.
Which is another reason why so many of our children are undereducated. The teachers are catering to the ESL/ELL and the students who are low performers while the high achievers are being left behind.
Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
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Originally Posted by TristansMommy
LOL.... whatever GN.. I have credibility.. I LIVED and sold homes in an area where schools were extremely important and knowledge of district performance and functionality were important and closely tied to home values.
I also exmaned the SD where I moved to BEFORE I choose an area to relocate to. I know how the school is performing . This particular SD has a great reputation.
Don't need to go to a school board meeting for that..
Also.. ESL/ELL may not be an issue where I live now.. because it's not primarily an area that has a large population of non english speaking people...
Ah ... Now I get it. You oppose national wide voucher system because you fear that it would depress home values which is not a good thing for someone who works in real estate industry.
Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday
Yet, in my area of the country, ELL students are very common - in Las Vegas for instance, there have been some estimates of upwards to a 1/3 of the students in the Clark County School Districts are children of illegal immigrants - and they (the students) have little knowledge of english yet, they HAVE TO BE placed in "regular" classes - where they actually hold back other students from learning.
Many school districts in the Southwest also face this same issue.
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