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Our local school system cost a huge fraction of the town budget. It produces exemplary students. Therefore more money equates to better results. How suprising.
education expenditures account for 46% of local government budgets on average. That has been linked previously. The cost is there regardless of the output and quality of the process.
What letting public $ go to private schools does, besides letting those racists and people who want to use the schools system to spread their own theology, is to deplete even faster the $ for the public schools, and to place kids in private schools which are not closely monitored by the state.
But if that's the route you want consider this caveat:
Where public money goes, public accountability always follows.
I will say this again. Schools that are government funded by definition are not private. Folks need to change their argument from Private to Charter if they want government dollars to fund.
I will say this again. Schools that are government funded by definition are not private. Folks need to change their argument from Private to Charter if they want government dollars to fund.
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I agree 100%. Therefore the people who wish to evade blacks or else practice religion should understand if they ever get their wish, not only will they destroy the public ed system, but also the private ed system also.
If you remember Algebra I, x widgets made at 16 cents per hour will never be more expensive that x widgets made at traditional American wages.
Which is why we had tariffs, 1790-1973.
It's NOT about education, it's about a failed trade policy.
And the rest of the world that out consumes the United States is going to buy which Widgets? How would the American consumer feel about the auto market today if their only affordable choices were GM, Ford and Chrysler? How profitable would American companies be if they couldn't produce overseas and sell to overseas markets? The world economy has changed exponentially since the early 70's.
Because this is the problem, directly quoted from the article: “I think that any honest assessment would have to say that there hasn’t been the deep, wholesale improvement in MPS [Milwaukee Public Schools] that we would have thought.”
The PUBLIC schools haven't improved. Let students opt out. It's a shame that so many of Milwaukee's charter schools turned out to be just as bad, or worse, but students have the option of opting out of them, as well.
And, from the article: "While research suggests that some participating students benefit from private school vouchers, these results may largely reflect the ability of students in places like New York City or Washington, D.C. to find empty seats in established parochial schools." Imagine that - parochial schools are more socially progressive than the public schools. Who's racist now?
AND, the article cites an NCES study which uses the discredited methodology of manipulating intangible 'student characteristics' which they are unable to adequately quantify.
Again, the problem is the ideological hegemony espoused by Ed Schools. Staying the course, a concept liberals hated when Bush used it but now love when it comes to the public school system, is simply unacceptable.
How about thsee quotes:
"Yet things have not worked out as intended. Chester Finn Jr., chair of the Hoover Institution’s Koret Task Force on K–12 Education and a champion of choice-based reform since the 1980s, has voiced “growing sympathy” with choice skeptics and warned against “too much trust in market forces."
Or:
"Today, the Milwaukee voucher program enrolls nearly 20,000 students in more than 100 schools, yet this growing marketplace has yielded little innovation or excellence. The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel recently described 10 percent of voucher schools as having “alarming deficiencies.” These include Alex’s Academics of Excellence, which was launched by a convicted rapist, and the Mandella School of Science and Math, whose director overreported its voucher enrollment and used the funds to purchase two Mercedes. Veteran Journal Sentinel writer Alan Borsuk has opined, “[Milwaukee Parental Choice Program] has preserved the status quo in terms of schooling options in the city more than it has offered a range of new, innovative, or distinctive schools.” Wisconsin headline writers have had a field day, with Milwaukee Magazine and The Capital Times (Madison) featuring the likes of “The failure of school choice” and “Whoops, we goofed: school choice doesn’t work like its supporters promised. Gulp. Now what?”
So, the private schols are failing as well.
And that's because it's not an education problem, but a societal problem- caused by racism and abandonment by industry and government.
And the rest of the world that out consumes the United States is going to buy which Widgets? How would the American consumer feel about the auto market today if their only affordable choices were GM, Ford and Chrysler? How profitable would American companies be if they couldn't produce overseas and sell to overseas markets? The world economy has changed exponentially since the early 70's.
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I suggest you read US History 1790-1973 to find your answers.
We are not Luxembourg or Denmark. We are currently the 2nd largest economy in the world.
Note: under bilateral trade, which we replaced with free trade in 1973, we traded overseas, protected our internal markets (as China, Japan, and most others do today), and the car, steel, and electronics industries were indeed profitable.
Plus we had a Middle Class.
And please note, guys like Tom Friedman and David Brooks get lots of media space, yet NONE of their predictions ever turn out. (remember when Brooks declared us a nation of "BoBo's? Where are those BoBo's today? In soup lines is where.)
If you want to read a group of people who have the opposite problem:
(Correct a high % of the time, but can't get on our corporate media because they say what the media doesn't want you to hear, I suggest you read Batra ("The Myth Of Free Trade"), Peterson ("The Silent Depresssion"- which is roaring now), and Bluestone and Harrison ("The Great U-Turn", which chronicles our government's reversing the post-war policies which cereated the modern Middle Class and returned to the laissez-faire of the 1880-1929 period, which has produced now just what it produced then). All from noted unis (Harvard, etc). All spot on as to what they said would happen happening.
But that has zip to do with education, because the problem is about government being controlled by the rich (plutocracy), and the resulting trade policy designed to enrich the few at the expense of the many, not education.
"Yet things have not worked out as intended. Chester Finn Jr., chair of the Hoover Institution’s Koret Task Force on K–12 Education and a champion of choice-based reform since the 1980s, has voiced “growing sympathy” with choice skeptics and warned against “too much trust in market forces."
Or:
"Today, the Milwaukee voucher program enrolls nearly 20,000 students in more than 100 schools, yet this growing marketplace has yielded little innovation or excellence. The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel recently described 10 percent of voucher schools as having “alarming deficiencies.” These include Alex’s Academics of Excellence, which was launched by a convicted rapist, and the Mandella School of Science and Math, whose director overreported its voucher enrollment and used the funds to purchase two Mercedes. Veteran Journal Sentinel writer Alan Borsuk has opined, “[Milwaukee Parental Choice Program] has preserved the status quo in terms of schooling options in the city more than it has offered a range of new, innovative, or distinctive schools.” Wisconsin headline writers have had a field day, with Milwaukee Magazine and The Capital Times (Madison) featuring the likes of “The failure of school choice” and “Whoops, we goofed: school choice doesn’t work like its supporters promised. Gulp. Now what?”
So, the private schols are failing as well.
Wow - you're quick to embrace learned helplessness (learned helplessness results from being trained to be locked into a system) and short on willing to provide personal empowerment. That seems so defeatist and... racist. And you're not totally correct in your conclusion. Look more closely into the details instead of relying on superficial information. There's good and bad. Here's a start: STATS: Test scores, graduation rates, and school vouchers
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And that's because it's not an education problem, but a societal problem- caused by racism and abandonment by industry and government.
No. It's a how rigorous of an education do you want to provide/pursue problem. The TIMSS analysis has already indicated that curriculum in the U.S. is at a lower level than that of other countries. The public schools have done little to nothing about it, even though they all know this. And don't think for a minute that low levels of achievement afflict only certain races. I don't know why you would make that assumption.
I will say this again. Schools that are government funded by definition are not private. Folks need to change their argument from Private to Charter if they want government dollars to fund.
Why? Public funding of both public and private schools works in Europe.
Why? Public funding of both public and private schools works in Europe.
Part of the reason is because government can not , in this country, dictate ANYTHING to a private institution. AND.. if a private instiution wants to recieve public funds, then they have to answer to the "public" with accountability of those tax dollars.
Don't believe me.. then look at what is happening now with the stimulus bill. You better bet your butt that I , You and EVERY taxpayer wants to know EXACTLY what those private institutions are doing with every TAX DOLLAR they recieve..
Same will go for education.
And..you have not addressed my post stating that UNTIL OUR ATTITUDES and adjustments toward educations changes (ie; Ed article info you posted) then privitization will yield the same results.
we have to work on helping those who do not learn as quickly AND those that excell at the same time.. not just leave the ones who are a little slow to .. well go well nowhere.
If we can change or METHODS and outlook of education with some restructuring of how we teach in the public system we can solve the problem WITHOUT having to disrupt and well corrode the entire public school system.
Part of the reason is because government can not , in this country, dictate ANYTHING to a private institution. AND.. if a private instiution wants to recieve public funds, then they have to answer to the "public" with accountability of those tax dollars...
That has already been covered in this thread. The European private schools that receive public funding must prove that their students pass the required state tests. If they do so, they are left alone. The taxpayers know the children are being educated AT LEAST as well as they would be in the public schools. Europeans are fine with that.
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And..you have not addressed my post stating that UNTIL OUR ATTITUDES and adjustments toward educations changes (ie; Ed article info you posted) then privitization will yield the same results.
Only for those who are happy with the minimal education public schools provide. Those who want a more rigorous education and choose to attend a public school (one that actually does provide a rigorous education - they do exist, but there are too few of them), or a private school that provides such, will see achievement gains.
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we have to work on helping those who do not learn as quickly AND those that excell at the same time.. not just leave the ones who are a little slow to .. well go well nowhere.
Try to find a public school that will adequately do that. There are A LOT of parents out there who complain that their schools don't and won't do that. I've previously listed just a few of the many websites...
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If we can change or METHODS and outlook of education with some restructuring of how we teach in the public system we can solve the problem WITHOUT having to disrupt and well corrode the entire public school system.
It's not just the methods - it's the content, level, and pace, too, as the TIMSS analysis indicated. Now, think about how many teachers complain about not having the time to teach everything that's supposedly on their states' NCLB tests (remember what a joke the tests are, as I've already pointed out?), and how many teachers complain about how hard the content is that they're teaching (and therefore, that's why their students score so low on the NCLB tests - yes those tests, you know the tests that the states manipulate to make it look like students are learning more than they really are...). Hell, even some parents and community members are in on the act of slamming NCLB for being too demanding because they don't realize what a joke it really is.
Given all that, what do you think the chances are that we're going to be able to get anywhere with the vast majority of public schools? They've thwarted parent-initiated improvement attempts for DECADES! Time to move on and up!
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