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Old 02-19-2009, 08:11 AM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA
2,290 posts, read 5,546,306 times
Reputation: 801

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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Not the same thing at all. Taxes are not collected from you to fund the media outlets, with the possible exception of PBS, and listening to/watching media is not mandated by law.
I could say the same thing this way: Taxes are not collected from you to fund the [private schools], with the possible exception of [public schools], and [attending private school] is not mandated by law.

 
Old 02-19-2009, 08:17 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,029 posts, read 44,840,107 times
Reputation: 13715
Quote:
Originally Posted by backfist View Post
I could say the same thing this way: Taxes are not collected from you to fund the [private schools], with the possible exception of [public schools], and [attending private school] is not mandated by law.
Education is mandated, undereducation is not - which is exactly why Special Ed students' parents can send the bill for private school to the public school system. Are you willing to admit that it's okay to undereducate everyone but Special Ed students?
Are you willing to admit that you're an oppressor?
 
Old 02-19-2009, 08:33 AM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA
2,290 posts, read 5,546,306 times
Reputation: 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Education is mandated, undereducation is not - which is exactly why Special Ed students' parents can send the bill for private school to the public school system. Are you willing to admit that it's okay to undereducate everyone but Special Ed students?
Are you willing to admit that you're an oppressor?
Nooooooooow we're getting somewhere, partner.

As you know, Special Ed students have an IEP that must be adhered to by the individual school districts. If the districts don't satisfy the IEP, and the parents seek private education to supplement that IEP, they can sue the state for their out-of-pocket costs if it's determined that the school district didn't perform under the IEP.

Now ... here's an area where you and I might agree. We can decree that the trapped and oppressed students you make reference to, are "Special Ed" students whose retroactive IEP's have not been performed by the states. Therefore, every single parent of every single oppressed and trapped child shall have the right to sue the federal government and receive compensation for the education they should have received. We can start with the poorest school districts and work our way up.

You in?
 
Old 02-19-2009, 08:39 AM
 
Location: NorthTexas
634 posts, read 1,558,841 times
Reputation: 327
Politicians who have lots to hide do not want a well educated public. This type of oppression has been going on for thousands of years, it is nothing new.
 
Old 02-19-2009, 08:58 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,266,002 times
Reputation: 4937
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Education is mandated,
Where is education "mandated"?
 
Old 02-19-2009, 09:30 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,029 posts, read 44,840,107 times
Reputation: 13715
Quote:
Originally Posted by backfist View Post
Nooooooooow we're getting somewhere, partner.

As you know, Special Ed students have an IEP that must be adhered to by the individual school districts. If the districts don't satisfy the IEP, and the parents seek private education to supplement that IEP, they can sue the state for their out-of-pocket costs if it's determined that the school district didn't perform under the IEP.

Now ... here's an area where you and I might agree. We can decree that the trapped and oppressed students you make reference to, are "Special Ed" students whose retroactive IEP's have not been performed by the states. Therefore, every single parent of every single oppressed and trapped child shall have the right to sue the federal government and receive compensation for the education they should have received. We can start with the poorest school districts and work our way up.

You in?
Not enough. The students with the potential for high achievement are also undereducated. They don't have a right to sue unless they are diagnosed with some type of disability which would qualify them for an IEP. No disability, no IEP.

Are you aware that the U.S. has the lowest percentage of top-performers and the highest percentage of low-performers on international assessments? Not only that, our top students, those who have taken advanced math and physics classes, rank at the bottom compared to their international peers. There is no doubt that they are being undereducated.

"While many of our schools appear to avoid solid academic training in favor of 'self-esteem' training, this must be working since in the latest round of international tests American students led the world in one department: 'self-esteem.' As in previous international tests, American students had the highest perception of how well they had done. 70% said they thought they had done well. This would be comic if it were not so tragic." - Richard Riley, former U.S. Secretary of Education

"For sometime now, Americans have comforted themselves when confronted with such bad news about their education system by believing that our better students compare favorably with the better students in other nations - but, this test [advanced math and science] bursts another myth." - William H. Schmidt, Ph.D., Michigan State University

What do you suggest the students who are capable of high levels of achievement but are undereducated in public schools do? Dumb down and bear it?
 
Old 02-19-2009, 09:36 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,029 posts, read 44,840,107 times
Reputation: 13715
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
Where is education "mandated"?
Compulsory school attendance laws.
 
Old 02-19-2009, 09:41 AM
 
Location: Southern NH
2,541 posts, read 5,852,730 times
Reputation: 1762
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregW View Post
I believe public schools should be funded at the same level as private schools. Then we will see if there is any difference in the results. Currently the biggest advantage is the fact that private schools can select out the disruptive, dumb and disturbed kids and public schools have to try to teach anything that stumbles in the door.

Republicans hate public school primarily because it upsets the class structure and the rich have to pay taxes for the public schools and foot the bill for private education for their own special kids.
In the city of Boston, some of the private schools spend less per student than the city of Boston spends. This would give more money to the private schools....

Some of the strongest supporters for vouchers are minority parents in inner city school disctricts that want something better for their children than the lousy public school system which does not seem to improve no matter how much money is spent per student.

The Washington DC example:

"The $13 million, federally funded, five-year pilot program - created by an act of Congress in January 2004 - provides a voucher of up to $7,500 for low-income families in the District of Columbia to send their children to private schools."

"For the 2005-06 academic year, the scholarship fund says it received 1.7 applications for each classroom seat available under the program."

School Vouchers Taking Hold In Washington - November 14, 2005 - The New York Sun

Editorial -- Mr. Obama should support D.C. school vouchers - washingtonpost.com
 
Old 02-19-2009, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA
2,290 posts, read 5,546,306 times
Reputation: 801
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Not enough. The students with the potential for high achievement are also undereducated.
Not to worry. The potentially high achieving oppressed and trapped kids will also be covered in our plan. Let's not forget, when we redirect those public education dollars to private school, we're going to start first with the potentially high achieving oppressed and trapped kids in the crumbling, poor, failing urban and rural schools. Right?
 
Old 02-19-2009, 10:42 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,100 posts, read 39,266,002 times
Reputation: 4937
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Compulsory school attendance laws.
Where are these laws found? Are they in the United States Constitution?
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