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Whoever chooses to remain in the public school. There are posters on this thread who have said they're happy with their public school. If that's their choice, fine. If some want to pursue a more academically rigorous education and so opt out of the public school, what's wrong with that?
Nothing at all. So long as we're clear that those who would "opt out" would be doing so because their schools underperform and do not meet the children's IEP standards.
After all, we don't want to go throwing our hard-earned tax dollars at families who really don't need the funds, right?
Nothing at all. So long as we're clear that those who would "opt out" would be doing so because their schools underperform and do not meet the children's IEP standards.
After all, we don't want to go throwing our hard-earned tax dollars at families who really don't need the funds, right?
This would only work if EVERY student were entitled to an IEP - equal treatment under the law. Furthermore, we wouldn't be "throwing" tax dollars at anyone who wasn't guaranteed a FAPE through their IEP.
This would only work if EVERY student were entitled to an IEP ... .
Ah yes. Every student should be entitled to an IEP. But as we know, many public school student's IEPs are met, if not exceeded. And they certainly don't need the money.
Ah yes. Every student should be entitled to an IEP. But as we know, many public school student's IEPs are met, if not exceeded. And they certainly don't need the money.
That would depend on each individual student, wouldn't it? I don't see how you can make a blanket statement like that. The best way to tell which students' educational needs aren't being met in their current school would be to use Value-Added achievement testing.
"The [current] testing regimes, and probably most people, assume that good schools are those with students who have high test scores and bad schools are those with students who have low test scores. But that isn’t entirely true. Not all students enter a school at the same level. A school that admits students with low scores and raises them up to average is better than one that admits high-scoring students and merely keeps them at the same level. Ultimately, the best way to measure school quality, or teacher quality for that matter, is to determine how much they change their students’ test scores each year. This is nothing more than the simplest and most direct way to measure how much students are learning. This approach is called “value-added,” because it focuses on how much value a school or a teacher is adding to what students [already] bring with them. ...are the children in the schools with the highest scores actually learning more than those in the schools with the lowest? Not if the high-scoring schools are just taking in children with the highest IQs from the most enriched environments and simply spitting them out at the same advanced levels years down the road."
http://www.ppionline.org/documents/Value_Added_Testing.pdf (broken link)
You may be surprised at which students are learning the least in our public schools. It may not be the demographic you think.
... public schools are full of bullies and drugs so why on Earth would any sane person want to put their kid in that environment.
Look for the past 40 years both political parties promise cash for the public school system but American kids are dumb compared to the rest of the world and a huge percentage don't even graduate. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that the gov doesn't want kids to be smart and bright. Heck, kids in the 1880's in a little shack in the woods had a better vocabulary, writing ability and better understanding of math than today's kids in high tech schools.
First of all ... I and other proponents of the vouchers system are not talking about scraping the public education system ... We are talking about choice here. If the public school is doing its job, then the parents would have no need to even exercise the voucher option. Vouchers would only be used when the parents are not satisfied with the school's performance. Keep in mind that afluent parents already have the option of sending their kids to a private school if they are not satisfied with the public school system in their area. What options or choices do the low income parents have when the schools are failing to educate their kids? Isn't education something that our country decided was a right to everyone regardless of race or economic status? Why are we so willing to allow poor children to wallow in these inner city schools where they have no other options?
Regarding government funding, the vouchers should be a set amount for each child. If a private school's tuition exceeds that amount, then it will be up to the parents to make up the difference. Proponents of the voucher system are not looking for government to fund expensive educations, they just want the SAME funding (or at least a portion of that funding) that's ALREADY allotted for each child to be made available to parents if the opt to use the voucher option - no more and no less. I realize that since you are a teacher (I presume this from your comments above) that the competition may be threatening to you and other public school teachers but remember, competition tends to create better products. Right now, our public school system is a monopoly (at least in the inner cities and other lower income regions). Maybe a little competition will provide the catalyst that's needed to trully overhaul the public school system so that our nation's children can be competitive in the global marketplace once again.
Yes ... there are problematic students that can create issues in the classroom which is why the "one-size-fits-all" approach that the public schools use is not serving these students nor the other students in the classroom. Since many parents have no other alternatives but the public school, this is one of the issues that you will have to continually contend with. There are private schools out there that specifically addresses the special needs of children who have disability or other learning challenges but if the parent can't afford a private school, then these children will have to stay in the public school.
I do agree that parents have their part in the education of their children but many parents don't have the time to spend 3-4 hours helping little Susie learn the material that she did not learn at school. We don't shell out all of this money on public education to have the parents teaching their child the concepts that they should have learned in school especially since not all parents are equipped to do this. Yes, there are some parents who impede their child's education by not providing a supportive home environment but most of the issues within the public school system is due to the public school system itself, such as mismangement of funds and resources, ineffective teaching methodology and tenure for teachers that should not be teaching.
it sounds great.. but I'm sorry.. allowing people to opt their child's tax dollars out of the public system.. so they can go to a private school.. will eventually lead to the demise of the public system as we know it...Essentially it would turn the public system into nothing more than a babysitting center... Of every kid that has no support from home, or ambition to succeed...
It sounds rosey and nice... but it is nothing more than an attempt to undermine the public school system by seeming to sound fair and balanced.. when it isn't...
Private schools have the ability to kick students out who do not perform, or are disruptive..
Public system is mandated to accept and accomodate everyone..
If all parents who want a better option are able to take their tax dollars for their kid's education and apply it to a private education.. that leaves the public system to dwindle away essentially...
If you want options for your kids.. you need to pay for it out of your own pocket.. NOT state or federal tax dollars that would normally go towards the public system.. As of now, if rich people want their kids to go to a private school.. it doesn't allow them to opt out in paying taxes for the public system...as it should be...
Problem is partisan politics being involved in the public school system....
If you want better options for your kids... lets sit down and create more options under the public system umbrella.. rather than stripping it of funding because you don't like it... Every child is entitled to an education in america... voucher system essentially says.. every child is entitled to "money" for an education... I don't like the sound of that...
Many things can be changed in the public school system, but it takes the public to get involved and parents..
One thing that irritates me here in idaho is.. we have 146 school districts.. and our neighboring state utah has 47... Utah has 1 million more residents than we do..
Now if you think about it... all those independent school districts require seperate administration to oversee everything.. these are the people making 80-120K per year... Seem Utah is doing something right. Utah spends the least amount of money per pupil on education.. yet has one of the highest performance rates on standardized testing...
If you don't think change can't happen to the public system... you are very mistaken...There is sooooo much opportunity.. it takes making everyone accountable...
Also, many states offer running start programs in public schools that allow high school students who succeed to graduate with an AA degree at the same time as graduating from high school. These programs are fantastic.. and involves tax dollars leaving the schools but instead being applied to the University (public university).. Many schools do not promote this program because they lose tax dollar funding... and that is wrong...and very much political...But these programs are successful and wonderful opportunities...
If you want better options for your kids... lets sit down and create more options under the public system umbrella.. rather than stripping it of funding because you don't like it...
Do you honestly think parents and concerned community members haven't tried to do exactly that... for DECADES... with little to no improvement? Remember those websites I posted? How far do you think those organized parent/community groups were able to get in the process of 'creating more options under the public system umbrella,' as you put it. I'll give you a hint: not very far at all, and nowhere in most cases. Time to move on and up.
And is if the dumbed down curriculum weren't enough, perhaps you could take a shot at answering the question I posted here in response to bluebelt1234:
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluebelt1234
One poster stated that education is to blame. It is not the fault of the teachers or administrators that our schools are suffering. I am a teacher and I have dealt with students with severe behavior problems, parents who don't care, and students who say they want to kill their classmates. It is not the teachers fault that a student has severe behavior problems. Many of the parents of these students should have never had children in the first place. The real reason our schools are suffering and producing fewer productive workers is because or our society's moral decline. We are also placing less importance on family values and raising our kids in a traditional family. As long as dad walks out on his responsibility and mom spends all night partying then we will continue to produce less productive workers.
Serious question because some parents are fed up with this, too - where does that leave the good students who have caring involved parents? How do you suggest those students get an appropriate, non-dumbed down education when so much of your time is taken by the students with behavior problems, irresponsible parents, etc.?
it sounds great.. but I'm sorry.. allowing people to opt their child's tax dollars out of the public system.. so they can go to a private school.. will eventually lead to the demise of the public system as we know it...Essentially it would turn the public system into nothing more than a babysitting center... Of every kid that has no support from home, or ambition to succeed...
It sounds rosey and nice... but it is nothing more than an attempt to undermine the public school system by seeming to sound fair and balanced.. when it isn't...
Private schools have the ability to kick students out who do not perform, or are disruptive..
Public system is mandated to accept and accomodate everyone..
If all parents who want a better option are able to take their tax dollars for their kid's education and apply it to a private education.. that leaves the public system to dwindle away essentially...
If you want options for your kids.. you need to pay for it out of your own pocket.. NOT state or federal tax dollars that would normally go towards the public system.. As of now, if rich people want their kids to go to a private school.. it doesn't allow them to opt out in paying taxes for the public system...as it should be...
Problem is partisan politics being involved in the public school system....
If you want better options for your kids... lets sit down and create more options under the public system umbrella.. rather than stripping it of funding because you don't like it... Every child is entitled to an education in america... voucher system essentially says.. every child is entitled to "money" for an education... I don't like the sound of that...
Many things can be changed in the public school system, but it takes the public to get involved and parents..
One thing that irritates me here in idaho is.. we have 146 school districts.. and our neighboring state utah has 47... Utah has 1 million more residents than we do..
Now if you think about it... all those independent school districts require seperate administration to oversee everything.. these are the people making 80-120K per year... Seem Utah is doing something right. Utah spends the least amount of money per pupil on education.. yet has one of the highest performance rates on standardized testing...
If you don't think change can't happen to the public system... you are very mistaken...There is sooooo much opportunity.. it takes making everyone accountable...
Also, many states offer running start programs in public schools that allow high school students who succeed to graduate with an AA degree at the same time as graduating from high school. These programs are fantastic.. and involves tax dollars leaving the schools but instead being applied to the University (public university).. Many schools do not promote this program because they lose tax dollar funding... and that is wrong...and very much political...But these programs are successful and wonderful opportunities...
Excellent Post.. too bad InformedConsent won't listen to any of it.. LOL
It's a pipe dream for him anyway.. The voucher system will never happen. It goes against Brown v Board of ed and it just won't happen. It may occurr here and there on local levels ..and that's fine with me. .as long as it is not on my local area..
The voucher system will never happen. It goes against Brown v Board of ed and it just won't happen. It may occurr here and there on local levels ..and that's fine with me. .as long as it is not on my local area..
How is it against Brown vs BoE if public funds don't go to schools that segregate?
And, did you read the article about Value-Added testing? How do you know that the public schools in your area are actually educating their students?
How is it against Brown vs BoE if public funds don't go to schools that segregate?
And, did you read the article about Value-Added testing? How do you know that the public schools in your area are actually educating their students?
Blah blah blah blah blah..
I know what my schools in my area are doing because I checked it out before I moved.
Your wasting so much energy on this for something that will NEVER happen on a NATIONAL scale..
If your so for vouchers.. then go right ahead and start trying to get it passed in your area!!!
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