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This is not "Agnes of God", women don't just "get" pregnant, it does take sperm. So yes, you & every other man is a participant, whether you like it or not.
Sounds CROWDED, to me.....I like a little more privacy when I "get someone pregnant"....are you sure about that? ALL of us participated?.....guess I just wasn't paying attention.
I see people being 'compelled' to do all SORTS ot things...to raise their families, to feed their children....to refrain from leaving the kids alone in the house overnight, to 'water' their pets, to pay their taxes, to serve on a jury...etc etc.
Bit of a stretch to go on about the obligations of those who have knowingly and willingly bought into them as if that situation were comparable to that of someone who was from the beginning ardently and actively opposed to taking on any of them at all. Is a woman within her rights in deciding never to reproduce? Is that option open to her, or can others come along and override her choice in that matter? If she has the right to make such a choice, how is she to protect and defend it?
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Originally Posted by macmeal
As I said, it's not an EXACT fit with anything else, as it DOES involve a woman's body...but "compelling her to be pregnant"? I didn't get her pregnant, SHE got her pregnant...I'm only compelling her to care for her kid, for just nine months...THEN, if she so desires, we can take it away.
This (and the rest that I left out) has no basis to stand on. It is nothing but your feelings and your opinions. You don't get to extend those into what are other people's personal rights of conscience. Choice of religion...whom to vote for...whom to marry...whether to bear children. All you get to do in these cases is advise. You don't get to compel...you don't get to decide.
Bit of a stretch to go on about the obligations of those who have knowingly and willingly bought into them as if that situation were comparable to that of someone who was from the beginning ardently and actively opposed to taking on any of them at all. Is a woman within her rights in deciding never to reproduce? Is that option open to her, or can others come along and override her choice in that matter? If she has the right to make such a choice, how is she to protect and defend it?
This (and the rest that I left out) has no basis to stand on. It is nothing but your feelings and your opinions. You don't get to extend those into what are other people's personal rights of conscience. Choice of religion...whom to vote for...whom to marry...whether to bear children. All you get to do in these cases is advise. You don't get to compel...you don't get to decide.
Sounds CROWDED, to me.....I like a little more privacy when I "get someone pregnant"....are you sure about that? ALL of us participated?.....guess I just wasn't paying attention.
My jaw HAPPENS to be clenched tight, as we 'write'. And no, I DON'T know what you mean....when a woman gets pregnant, "me and ALL men" caused this?
Surely, you can't be serious. NO woman is THAT promiscuous.....
I was referring to the part of your post earlier that said "I didn't get her pregnant, SHE got her pregnant". What I meant is, it's not just her that chooses or happens to get pregnant, there is a man involved. So you cannot discount the fact that yes, men are involved in the fact that women get pregnant. I'm not trying to make you angry, I'm just pointing out the fact that a woman cannot get pregnant w/out a man....well, I mean w/out sperm.
I was referring to the part of your post earlier that said "I didn't get her pregnant, SHE got her pregnant". What I meant is, it's not just her that chooses or happens to get pregnant, there is a man involved. So you cannot discount the fact that yes, men are involved in the fact that women get pregnant. I'm not trying to make you angry, I'm just pointing out the fact that a woman cannot get pregnant w/out a man....well, I mean w/out sperm.
Understood. Yet our "genes" have dictated that the woman carry the baby..that's not some 'man's' doing, that's just 'the way it is'.
That being the case, what does ANY of this have to do with aborting a human fetus? A human fetus is a human life...no, it can't read, write, or jump rope...neither can many adults. It can't 'support itself' on its own...neither can a 6-month old. It's not 'fully up to speed'..neither is a quadriplegic, OR a bedridden elderly person...but a fetus is a human life, at one stage. So how do we say it's OK to abort it? Do we ASK it?
I just don't get it, I guess. Then again, what do I know? I don't have a uterus.
Not trying to insult you, at all. I'm perfectly serious. I think abortion is a great evil. Why? because it is. Can I prove it? No; neither can I prove that murder, rape, or child abuse is evil. I'm confident that it is, however, and that someday, we'll "get this", just like we finally "got" the fact that slavery is evil.
Understood. Yet our "genes" have dictated that the woman carry the baby..that's not some 'man's' doing, that's just 'the way it is'.
That being the case, what does ANY of this have to do with aborting a human fetus? A human fetus is a human life...no, it can't read, write, or jump rope...neither can many adults. It can't 'support itself' on its own...neither can a 6-month old. It's not 'fully up to speed'..neither is a quadriplegic, OR a bedridden elderly person...but a fetus is a human life, at one stage. So how do we say it's OK to abort it? Do we ASK it?
I just don't get it, I guess. Then again, what do I know? I don't have a uterus.
Not trying to insult you, at all. I'm perfectly serious. I think abortion is a great evil. Why? because it is. Can I prove it? No; neither can I prove that murder, rape, or child abuse is evil. I'm confident that it is, however, and that someday, we'll "get this", just like we finally "got" the fact that slavery is evil.
Well I just only recently realized this is one of those threads that spews hate on abortion, in a backdoor kind of way of course. Listen, I've had an abortion. I did, it's just a fact, just like so many other women have done. Now, I think that the responsiblity to not get pregnant is on BOTH people, NOT just the woman. It's quite easy for a man to come alone w/condoms & be done w/it, yet what happens if the condom breaks? Or the pill doesn't work? It's a decision that should ideally be made from both ends, however because the woman is the one who ultimately has to deal w/it, really the end decision does lay w/her. Of course no one is saying that abortion is ideal...it's not a great procedure to go thru, especially w/the protestors yelling at you as you try to walk thru the doors (yes, this happened to me). Most of these women who have abortions are good people, they're not jerks, they're not callous, they're not evil people. But, that is how they are portrayed. I am not an evil person. I think most people that have come in contact w/me would attest to this. But, as I did not want a child, I chose that route & my boyfriend was in complete agreement. Like you said, you can't prove that abortion is evil....neither can I, nor can I prove that it's not evil. It's just something that I believe in....not in abortion, but in the right for a woman to choose. I'm sure I haven't expressed myself very well w/this post, but I try.
Well I just only recently realized this is one of those threads that spews hate on abortion, in a backdoor kind of way of course. Listen, I've had an abortion. I did, it's just a fact, just like so many other women have done. Now, I think that the responsiblity to not get pregnant is on BOTH people, NOT just the woman. It's quite easy for a man to come alone w/condoms & be done w/it, yet what happens if the condom breaks? Or the pill doesn't work? It's a decision that should ideally be made from both ends, however because the woman is the one who ultimately has to deal w/it, really the end decision does lay w/her. Of course no one is saying that abortion is ideal...it's not a great procedure to go thru, especially w/the protestors yelling at you as you try to walk thru the doors (yes, this happened to me). Most of these women who have abortions are good people, they're not jerks, they're not callous, they're not evil people. But, that is how they are portrayed. I am not an evil person. I think most people that have come in contact w/me would attest to this. But, as I did not want a child, I chose that route & my boyfriend was in complete agreement. Like you said, you can't prove that abortion is evil....neither can I, nor can I prove that it's not evil. It's just something that I believe in....not in abortion, but in the right for a woman to choose. I'm sure I haven't expressed myself very well w/this post, but I try.
Don't expect me to 'beat up on you'....I'm not in this to cast aspersions. I'm not in this to judge individuals. I'm in this to protect unborn people, period. You'll get no 'slurs' from me, and I 'feel your pain'.
I stand by what I said, though. The condom breaks...the pill doesn't work...the boyfriend's a jerk..the husband runs off....sad facts of life, but these are problems between adults, who are PRESUMABLY (?) responsible for their own behavior, and its consequences. I can be sympathetic to you, I can say I understand, I can give you consolation...but I CAN'T tell you to kill your child. That's just WAY beyond the rest of this stuff.
Adults can be rotten. Fathers abandon mothers...sometimes MOTHERS abandon fathers....adults put each other, AND THEMSELVES, through hell....but you don't 'make it right' by killing the unborn. You do something else.
Sorry, I can't put it any plainer. I'm not judging you, nor denying that I myself could once have gone through the same thing, had circumstances been different. But nothing I say, nor anything you've gone through, gives ANYBODY the right to kill a human life. At that point, the choice is no longer yours.
Best wishes to you.....sorry if this sounds 'harsh'..it's not meant to.
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