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Old 12-22-2008, 09:51 AM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,874,717 times
Reputation: 14345

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank_Carbonni View Post
They were part of the US and then they left without going through any channels and then attacked the Union. Sounds like treason to me. The South didn't take a vote to Congress and didn't try to settle it in the courts; they just grabbed the ball and ran home when they thought they might not get their way.

And many civil wars involve a part of a country that declares itself independent from the rest.
But are those civil wars in countries that founded themselves on the ability to disassociate from a government they deemed non-responsive? The Declaration of Independence wasn't some ancient document in 1859, it wasn't even a hundred years since the colonists had declared independence. And the federal government was not established as it is today, they were still hammering out numerous issues, not the least of which was states' rights. Taking the secession out of its historic context doesn't add to an understanding of the causes of the Civil War, it obscures it.

 
Old 12-22-2008, 10:49 AM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
37,171 posts, read 19,194,865 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CamaroGuy View Post
Meaning what?
The Confederacy has been gone for 143 years.

Last edited by cuebald; 12-22-2008 at 11:04 AM..
 
Old 12-22-2008, 11:03 AM
 
Location: Columbia, SC
37,171 posts, read 19,194,865 times
Reputation: 14896
Quote:
Originally Posted by DC at the Ridge View Post
The Confederate flag could be a symbol of the tolerance Americans have for those different perspectives and cultural disparities. If we can't be tolerant and respectful of those who have different viewpoints, what do all our freedoms mean?
If we were tolerant and respectful of those who have different viewpoints, we wouldn't fly a Confederate Flag knowing that it was deeply offensive to a great many people.

The Confederate Flag has been used by the Klan every since their creation and is currently used by the Neonazis as an adjunct to their message of white supremacy. It is flown at rallies alongside flags with swastikas, they are supported in their efforts by the Klan, and the Sons of Confederate Veterans who say this flag honors their "heritage" have sat on their tongues while the Neonazis and the Klan have co-opted it for their purposes. I know this to be a fact because several of us here in Columbia sent the SCV a letter before the Nazi rally in S.C. on April 21, 2007 on the State House grounds requesting that they speak oput in opposition to the rally. I have posted pictures on this board from that rally and a link to the nazi presidential candidate, John Taylor Bowles, speaking at the rally and specifically singling out the Confederate Flag flying in front of the State House for comment.

As I said, I had a relative who fought in the Civil War, Henry Williamson Dixon. He is buried within two miles of where I sit. From what I know of him and his reasons for joining the Confederacy and his actions and attitudes in later life, I have every reason to believe that he would be appalled at the use of the Confederate Flag today and what it has come to represent, and he would be ashamed of its being flown to offend people black or white.
 
Old 12-22-2008, 11:19 AM
 
42,732 posts, read 29,874,717 times
Reputation: 14345
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuebald View Post
If we were tolerant and respectful of those who have different viewpoints, we wouldn't fly a Confederate Flag knowing that it was deeply offensive to a great many people.

The Confederate Flag has been used by the Klan every since their creation and is currently used by the Neonazis as an adjunct to their message of white supremacy. It is flown at rallies alongside flags with swastikas, they are supported in their efforts by the Klan, and the Sons of Confederate Veterans who say this flag honors their "heritage" have sat on their tongues while the Neonazis and the Klan have co-opted it for their purposes. I know this to be a fact because several of us here in Columbia sent the SCV a letter before the Nazi rally in S.C. on April 21, 2007 on the State House grounds requesting that they speak oput in opposition to the rally. I have posted pictures on this board from that rally and a link to the nazi presidential candidate, John Taylor Bowles, speaking at the rally and specifically singling out the Confederate Flag flying in front of the State House for comment.

As I said, I had a relative who fought in the Civil War, Henry Williamson Dixon. He is buried within two miles of where I sit. From what I know of him and his reasons for joining the Confederacy and his actions and attitudes in later life, I have every reason to believe that he would be appalled at the use of the Confederate Flag today and what it has come to represent, and he would be ashamed of its being flown to offend people black or white.
It doesn't matter if some groups have adopted a symbol for their own egregious reasons, the symbol means different things to different people. Tolerance isn't about being okay about things that are inoffensive, it's about accepting that symbols can mean more than one thing to different groups of people, and before jumping to the offense, maybe taking the opportunity to understand what this symbol means to the person using it would be the right thing to do. You are taking one aspect when defining "what it has come to represent", I am stating that there is more than that one aspect, and acknowledging that there is more than one aspect, more meaning than the offensive one, THAT would be the beginning of tolerance.

The Civil War is not a simple chapter in our history. Most wars aren't. The results of a war are not always the reasons for a war, events have a life of their own. Strategies shift during wars, outcomes can be surprises. There are people who are interested in the Civil War because of its historical context, and there are people who display the Confederate flag not because of their racist leanings or prejudices, but because they see the Confederate flag in a different context than you. I don't advocate that they be insensitive to other interpretations of that flag, but I also don't advocate abbreviated explanations for a war that put this country into a cauldron, and had such an impact on who we are today.
 
Old 12-22-2008, 01:09 PM
 
Location: Cali
3,955 posts, read 7,198,531 times
Reputation: 2308
As I understand it most of the men who fought for the Confederacy were not from slave holding families. Is it offensive? To some people perhaps. Its all in the eye of the beholder I guess. I imagine some American Indians find our own American flag offensive being that Indians were massacred by soldiers flying that very same flag.
 
Old 12-22-2008, 04:38 PM
 
16,087 posts, read 41,159,147 times
Reputation: 6376
The KKK also uses the cross.
 
Old 12-22-2008, 04:49 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,815,462 times
Reputation: 12341
The question to ask would be: Why does one fly the flag? Some of it may be rooted in rascism and some as a symbol of regional pride and some of it. For most part, it is a rebellious gesture, hence the controversies.

It is almost like the proponents of the flag, at heart, would take it over Stars and Stripes, if they had to choose. Would you?
 
Old 12-22-2008, 04:51 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,815,462 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakewooder View Post
The KKK also uses the cross.
Burning cross... not just a cross.
 
Old 12-22-2008, 05:01 PM
 
2,223 posts, read 2,219,381 times
Reputation: 371
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lakewooder View Post
The KKK also uses the cross.
Ummm... Yeah. I think that's a BURNING cross.

Did you know that the Swastika is also a cross?
 
Old 12-22-2008, 05:03 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
31,767 posts, read 28,815,462 times
Reputation: 12341
Quote:
Originally Posted by Filet Mignon View Post
Ummm... Yeah. I think that's a BURNING cross.

Did you know that the Swastika is also a cross?
Swastika is actually a Hindu ("Aryan") symbol.
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