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I don't have any resentment toward my country. I am quite proud to be an American. I am quite proud to defend points of view that I don't agree with in the name of free speech. I am quite proud to be open enough to step back and evaluate symbols from multiple perspectives rather than selectively choose only one perspective and then slap labels on every person who uses that symbol with my one narrow perspective. I try to understand where other people are coming from, instead of labeling someone as unpatriotic because they don't agree with me.
If you were given the choice to pick one flag that represents you, which would be it? Why?
An excellent point, and one that I had not until now considered.
Rep to you, Texas.
Thanks Yeledaf. I know you and I don't always agree on this general issue, or on the WBTS. BUT...I very much respect and admire that you always argue/debate/discuss from honestly held principles, premises and historical interpretations that does not reflexively assign hateful motivations to those who take the opposite side. And I have given you rep points in the past because of it!
And your continued insistence on alliegeance to a symbol of treason demonstrates that patriotism clearly.
Treason? Chief Justice Chase (ironically given he was one of the most radical of the Republicans) disagrees:
"If you bring these leaders to trial, it will condemn the North, for by the Constitution secession is not rebellion. We cannot convict him of treason." -Salmon P. Chase
If you were given the choice to pick one flag that represents you, which would be it? Why?
1. I'm not a Southerner. I was born in Massachusetts.
2. My ancestors did not come to this country until the 20th century, no one in my family fought in the Civil War.
3. My personal heritage has nothing to do with my defense of some of the people who choose to display the Confederate flag. Instead of jumping to negative conclusions about their motivations, I engage people in discourse and often discover very reasonable, patriotic, non-racist reasons for recognizing and honoring a part of AMERICAN history, not just from the winning AMERICAN point of view, but from the losing AMERICAN point of view.
Treason? Chief Justice Chase (ironically given he was one of the most radical of the Republicans) disagrees:
"If you bring these leaders to trial, it will condemn the North, for by the Constitution secession is not rebellion. We cannot convict him of treason." -Salmon P. Chase
Exactly. And let me add something to that, friend. (Which is well documented in Burke Davis' The Long Retreat)
He noted a quote by Chief Justice Salmon P. Chase telling Edwin Stanton "If you bring these leaders to trial, it will condemn the North, for by the Constitution, secession is not rebellion...His (Jeff Davis') capture was a mistake. His trial will be a greater one...we cannot convict him of treason."
On page 214 Davis observed that a congressional committee proposed a special court for Davis' trial, headed up by Judge Franz Lieber. As it was, Lieber admitted "After studying more than 270,000 Confederate documents, seeking evidence against Davis, this court discouraged the War Department: 'Davis will be found not guilty...and we shall stand there completely beaten'."
Whether or not secession was a wise move can be debated by reasonable people. However, it was not treason.
Exactly. And let me add something to that, friend. (Which is well documented in Burke Davis' The Long Retreat)
He noted a quote by Chief Justice Salmon P. Chase telling Edwin Stanton "If you bring these leaders to trial, it will condemn the North, for by the Constitution, secession is not rebellion...His (Jeff Davis') capture was a mistake. His trial will be a greater one...we cannot convict him of treason."
On page 214 Davis observed that a congressional committee proposed a special court for Davis' trial, headed up by Judge Franz Lieber. As it was, Lieber admitted "After studying more than 270,000 Confederate documents, seeking evidence against Davis, this court discouraged the War Department: 'Davis will be found not guilty...and we shall stand there completely beaten'."
Whether or not secession was a wise move can be debated by reasonable people. However, it was not treason.
In your opinion.
The stars and bars is the very symbol of treason. A symbol that some see as "expressive" of their individuality or something.
So, go ahead. Wear it. And think about how fortunate you are to live in a free country that allows such experession. After all, there's no law against bad taste or confused alliegance.
i like the people very much but not what the flag represents to me. it is the biggest single mistake the south ever made. i like to learn from my mistakes and move on. the confederate flag reminds me not to walk into bars and punch 6 ft 4 men in the nose --a terrible lesson. the french all too often carry their defeats & sufferings as proud badges of honor. better to remember our success than our failure no?
The stars and bars is the very symbol of treason. A symbol that some see as "expressive" of their individuality or something.
So, go ahead. Wear it. And think about how fortunate you are to live in a free country that allows such experession. After all, there's no law against bad taste or confused alliegance.
Secession is not treason. Treason is very strictly defined in the Constitution.
Secession is not treason. Treason is very strictly defined in the Constitution.
Most of the people that post about treason do so from emotional and not factual reasons.
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