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You didn't refer to that one. Look at any brain scan in any medical book or academic journal comparing activity in the brain of a person who has never used marijuana to a person who has used it regularly. There are tons. The last one I saw was in a journal in a psychiatric office (not for myself - for a client of mine).
Still waiting for you to cite one. I've looked for them myself and haven't found any conclusive studies that marijuana causes any long-term damage to the brain. But I'm willing to read yours.
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Yep. I'd still think you were an idiot, but that's your prerogative. Wouldn't want to be ya.
Cars: Yeah, they can be just as frustrating. When I go running, I can definitely tell the difference in my breathing when running next to a road vs. running on a backwoods trail, and choose the latter when I can.
However, just because they are more PREVALENT does not mean they pollute MORE at the elemental level. (Take an advanced Stats class.) I would rather stand next to a busy road that attend a party where people are smoking up. As far as being around it, I view cigarettes and marijuana equally: do whatever you want, just keep it the hell away from me or anyone else's virgin lungs.
And FYI: Cigarettes eff up your brain, too. Rebound anxiety, depression, physiological equilibrium, etc.
You seem conflicted. Legalizing marijuana within one's home is not going to affect your lungs, and you also agree that people have a right to do as they please as long as it doesn't harm you, but yet you still are against legalization, even knowing there will still be age limits and not-in-public laws like we have with alcohol and tobacco. Let me know if I got your position wrong.
Taking graduate level neuropharmacology and brain development, what I got out of the lecture was that it really depended on whether a drug was a strong agonist, esp with dopamine, to determine how "hooked" person would be. Which interestingly enough, I don't recall studies metioning as fact long term side effects of marijuana smoking. I recall studies that mention the possibility, and showed a resonable correlation (meaning that there is a possibility, but not a very high likelyhood...so let's say correlation coefficent of maybe .55, not terribly strong but something within the realm of possibility).
Marijuana is not known to be addictive. Cocaine, being a very strong agonist and blocking the re-uptake of dopamine, is very very addictive. However, it does not have any withdrawal symptoms. Alcohol is again a strong agonist, and has very bad withdrawal symptoms. It can lead to Korsakoff 's Syndrome (causing confusion by anterograde amnesia...thus people don't remember past events). Yet, this is legal.
Which is why we should legalize and regulate drugs. We need to focus on damage control. There are many people who have just tried some drugs a few times and continue to live normal, healthy lives. I barely drink now, maybe on the weekends. Trust me, as mentioned in a previous post, I tried a good amount of stuff.
On a side note, my Brain States proff actually somewhat advocated the use of LSD. I mean it's a bit of a stretch, but it affects the serotonin in a part of the orbital frontal lobe or the "religious" part of our brain. Hence the religous nature of LSD.
Finally, an intelligent adversary!
Regarding the agonist factor, I believe that is why cigarettes are supposedly the most addictive drug out there. It still baffles me that they are legal. If I had to choose, I would swap marijuana for cigarettes. Pot can still be addictive in the sense that one can develop a tolerance for it, but changes in brain chemistry causing cravings are not as severe.
Regarding withdrawal, it takes more chronic alcohol use to experience withdrawal symptoms, than with cocaine, use, yes? I have never heard of "moderate" cocaine use. Hangovers aren't really withdrawals, but side effects, as they can occur after one binge - still a bad sign, though.
As a daughter of 2 people who seem to be showing early W-K symptoms, I can vouch for alcohol being a drug that affects more than just an individual.
Point taken regarding LSD, but why would anyone risk their health for "false" spirtuality when consistent meditation can be so much more satisfying, because it is real, it is retained, and there are no psychotics.
Still waiting for you to cite one. I've looked for them myself and haven't found any conclusive studies that marijuana causes any long-term damage to the brain. But I'm willing to read yours.
And you haven't found any conclusive studies citing the opposite. It seems we're at an impasse, Mr. Bond
Seriously though, I'll look around - I would need access to something like PubMed though, which I haven't had in awhile. And frankly, I don't feel like driving the 45 minutes to NIH for the sake of an internet argument * shrug *
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Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend
You seem conflicted. Legalizing marijuana within one's home is not going to affect your lungs, and you also agree that people have a right to do as they please as long as it doesn't harm you, but yet you still are against legalization, even knowing there will still be age limits and not-in-public laws like we have with alcohol and tobacco. Let me know if I got your position wrong.
Not conflicted, exactly - but knowing how difficult it already is to go to public places without having to deal with smoke, I dread the doubling of such pollution if marijuana were legalized. Plus hippies just freaking annoy me
IF given the choice between Pot and Cigarettes, however, I would rather cigarettes be illegal.
Also assuming the smoking bans in existence would apply. Though they don't cover everything - sitting outside a cafe on a nice day? Driving with the windows open? Walking my dog? Dang smokers are EVERYWHERE. And they don't care if you breathe it in. And they assume they are above litter laws.
And you haven't found any conclusive studies citing the opposite. It seems we're at an impasse, Mr. Bond
Many studies have tried to determine the long-term effects of marijuana, and well, they are inconclusive because you can't prove a negative. If there are long-term harmful effects (other than lungs) they are very hard to find. Since they haven't been found, it doesn't seem right to base an argument (let alone a law) on them.
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Seriously though, I'll look around - I would need access to something like PubMed though, which I haven't had in awhile. And frankly, I don't feel like driving the 45 minutes to NIH for the sake of an internet argument * shrug *
Not conflicted, exactly - but knowing how difficult it already is to go to public places without having to deal with smoke, I dread the doubling of such pollution if marijuana were legalized. Plus hippies just freaking annoy me
IF given the choice between Pot and Cigarettes, however, I would rather cigarettes be illegal.
Also assuming the smoking bans in existence would apply. Though they don't cover everything - sitting outside a cafe on a nice day? Driving with the windows open? Walking my dog? Dang smokers are EVERYWHERE. And they don't care if you breathe it in. And they assume they are above litter laws.
You can't walk around with a beer in your hand, so why would you think a joint would be allowed in public? Jailing good-natured productive members of society (and many marijuana users are) is a very extreme and heartless way to handle your occasional intrusion from the second-hand smoker jerks.
All those studies were regarding driving under the influence... okay, so? I didn't mention that aspect of its use ONCE! Try responding to my ACTUAL points next time. Thanks for the extracurricular entertainment, though
Okay, great! I never said there was anything wrong with MEDICAL applications. My dad has glaucoma, and if he didn't have eyedrops that effectively reduced the pressure behind his eyes, I would sure rather that he have an arguably ideal option than be in pain.
But for recreational use? Maybe there are long-term neurological effects, and maybe there aren't (I've seen studies that say there ARE, but those were in my piddly little graduate psychology studies, not the more widely acclaimed INTERNET that you prefer to quote). Aside from that, the very sources you quote have stated the respiratory effects.
"Marijuana smoke irritates the lungs. Heavy exposure of the lungs to irritation such as smoke increases the likelihood of lung cancer and other lung problems. Marijuana speeds the heartbeat and is unhealthy for people with high blood pressure or other cardiovascular ailments."
That is enough for me. And by the way, lest you think I'm a hypocrite - I think cigarettes should be illegal, too. Not because individual freedoms need to be limited, but because the secondhand smoke limits the life and liberty of anyone in the presence of smokers.
If EVERYONE who did any kind of drug did so in the confines of their own homes, I couldn't care less. Unfortunately, the addict brain is so narcissistic, it doesn't care who else gets hurt.
1. Make a coherent point and I will respond to it. So far your arguments have consisted of A; "you're a dumb stoner", B; "I have studies! I have them! I just have no way of showing you I have them!", and C; "You're wrong because I believe you're wrong".
2. Once again your argument consists of "Your studies are worthless, mine are the best, but I have no way of proving they exist nor do I have names/citations of the studies" As for the whole; "Yah well your sources are from the net!" Would you have me come to you address and hold a book in front of your face? I am kinda limited in my ability to show you a book or printed article on the subject. Also, do you think that the APA, DEA, etc are lying simply because their studies are *Gasp* on the net?
3. No s*** smoking something can be irritating to the lungs, so can perfume, deodorizers, etc. Should they be illegal too? Also, you do know that marijuana can be CONSUMED right?
Many studies have tried to determine the long-term effects of marijuana, and well, they are inconclusive because you can't prove a negative. If there are long-term harmful effects (other than lungs) they are very hard to find. Since they haven't been found, it doesn't seem right to base an argument (let alone a law) on them.
And as far as proving it DOES exist, studies are inconclusive simply because it has only been studied in recent years, and we need to await the outcome of longitudinal studies. So, time will tell.
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Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend
You can't walk around with a beer in your hand, so why would you think a joint would be allowed in public?
Because you CAN walk around in public with a cigarette in your hand.
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Originally Posted by LogicIsYourFriend
Jailing good-natured productive members of society (and many marijuana users are) is a very extreme and heartless way to handle your occasional intrusion from the second-hand smoker jerks.
If it were legal, I would agree. Unfortunately, anyone who wants marijuana legalized is shooting themselves in the foot by flauting the law. Why should lawmakers appease those who don't respect them anyway?
btw - I appreciate the characterization of "jerks"
You didn't refer to that one. Look at any brain scan in any medical book or academic journal comparing activity in the brain of a person who has never used marijuana to a person who has used it regularly. There are tons. The last one I saw was in a journal in a psychiatric office (not for myself - for a client of mine).
Yep. I'd still think you were an idiot, but that's your prerogative. Wouldn't want to be ya.
Cars: Yeah, they can be just as frustrating. When I go running, I can definitely tell the difference in my breathing when running next to a road vs. running on a backwoods trail, and choose the latter when I can.
However, just because they are more PREVALENT does not mean they pollute MORE at the elemental level. (Take an advanced Stats class.) I would rather stand next to a busy road that attend a party where people are smoking up. As far as being around it, I view cigarettes and marijuana equally: do whatever you want, just keep it the hell away from me or anyone else's virgin lungs.
And FYI: Cigarettes eff up your brain, too. Rebound anxiety, depression, physiological equilibrium, etc.
1. Talking out your rear again? They don't exist, sorry.
1. Make a coherent point and I will respond to it.
Grow up and debate with the big boys. I'm done with you, but feel free to spectate my conversations with "Logic" and "that1guy" - at least they can be reasoned with.
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Also, do you think that the APA, DEA, etc are lying simply because their studies are *Gasp* on the net?
