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Please, get over yourself. As I have explained in some detail already, I am quite aware of the effects of pregnancy. I have been thoroughly involved in my family's creation and I have read numerous books on the subject because my wife didn't have the easiest time of it.
Oh, so you've read books! Well why didn't you just say that. Of course that makes you an authority on the health risks of pregnancy, giving you the right to take away my choice as to whether or not I get to weigh the risks like you do. Got it.
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Originally Posted by Reads2MUCH
Yes, there are "possible" risks to pregnancy. But all but a few of your possibilities commonly occur as a result of all kinds of illnesses. By your reasoning, we might as well just crawl into a corner and die because there is a chance if we do anything we might have to deal with one of your listed side effects.
Nonsense. Strawman. I don't advocate that you have your testicles removed because of the risk of testicular cancer. That's your choice. You get to decide whether you want chemotherapy or forego treatment altogether when you have cancer. You get to decide, with advice from your doctor, what form of treatment, if any, you want to pursue for anything that affects your body medically. I don't care if you want to run naked through the rain and catch your death of cold. You even have the right to tell your doctor not to revive you if your heart stops beating. You do not have the right to force me to undergo a medical condition that could potentially put my life at risk. Like my cousin, Sagran's cousin's wife and my friend's daughter-in-law, not all potentially deadly complications can be diagnosed during pregnancy.
Pregnancy is among the leading causes of premature death in women.
Yes, even in this day and age.
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Originally Posted by Reads2MUCH
And I don't really get the "who do you think you are" bit. I am not trying to force you to do anything but take responsibility for your actions.
Weighing the pros and cons of the medical consequences of carrying a pregnancy to term and deciding whether or not to do so, is taking responsibility for my actions!
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Originally Posted by Reads2MUHC
And I have never once mentioned legislation. I would prefer people take care of their problems willingly, not be forced by government action. If you don't want to worry about your list, take the proper precautions. And I hope you feel lucky that your own mother didn't share your attitude or any of our mothers for that matter. If left up to people with your attitude, the human race would cease to exist very shortly. It's one thing to str8 up say you don't want children, it is another to hide behind medical side effects. That argument just doesn't hold up when you look at everything we have to deal with anyway. You can call if self defense if you want, that is your perogative. Just hope we don't have a mass movement towards single minded self preservation. No more babies, no more us. Get it.
This is utterly absurd. I don't suggest that all women not want or have children, thereby causing the demise and destruction of our species. You really are all about the straw men, aren't you? If my mother had aborted me, guess what, I wouldn't know, let alone care. I don't believe I have a "right" to have been born. But I was. And now that I exist, and I don't depend on anyone else's body to sustain my life, I get to decide what happens to my body, through and including my death.
And for the record, I'm a married woman who loves children and would love to be pregnant if I could. My opinions on this subject have absolutely nothing to do with my personal choice, but with women's personal choice. Any woman. Under any circumstance.
Jane72, there really aren't adequate words to express my admiration for you. Thank you for all you've brought to the world.
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Originally Posted by Katiana
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Bacterial Vaginosis
Toxoplasmosis
Group B Strep Infection
Yeast Infection
Cytomegalovirus (CMV) Infection
Urinary Tract Infection
None of these are complications of pregnancy; they can happen any time.
So can stroke and heart attacks. So what? Clearly you've managed to miss the point that these conditions, up to and including death, are increased risks when a woman is pregnant, versus when she's not. Yeast infections are more common during pregnancy than any other time in a woman's life. And in some cases, even common and usually harmless infections like CVM can be potentially harmful to a fetus.
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The following potential problems can occur for infants who are infected from their mothers before (during pregnancy) birth:
Moderate enlargement of the liver and spleen
80-90% suffer from complications within the first few years of life including hearing loss, vision impairment, and varying degrees of mental retardation.
5-10% will present with no symptoms at birth but will develop varying degrees of hearing and mental or coordination problems.
Oh, so you've read books! Well why didn't you just say that. Of course that makes you an authority on the health risks of pregnancy, giving you the right to take away my choice as to whether or not I get to weigh the risks like you do. Got it.
Yes, actually reading books is a great way to acquire knowledge on a subject, especially when it is one that currently pertains to your wife's condition. Have you even read my posts on this board, or are you just winging it here. I haven't tried to tell anyone they can't choose how to manage their life in order not to have children. In fact, I have advocated women's rights to use birth control and condemned the current line of thinking this thread is based on. While we all know the pill can be dangerous for women, we also know that the pill prevents fertilization therefore it is not abortion. No one has said a thing about wether or not you have the right to weigh the options as you see fit. It's just funny how you fly straight in on the attack and really have no idea what the whole conversation was all about. You picked out two lines and went on the defensive without really understanding what was being discussed between the two of us.
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Nonsense. Strawman. I don't advocate that you have your testicles removed because of the risk of testicular cancer. That's your choice. You get to decide whether you want chemotherapy or forego treatment altogether when you have cancer. You get to decide, with advice from your doctor, what form of treatment, if any, you want to pursue for anything that affects your body medically. I don't care if you want to run naked through the rain and catch your death of cold. You even have the right to tell your doctor not to revive you if your heart stops beating. You do not have the right to force me to undergo a medical condition that could potentially put my life at risk. Like my cousin, Sagran's cousin's wife and my friend's daughter-in-law, not all potentially deadly complications can be diagnosed during pregnancy.
What are you even talking about here. My post had nothing to do with forcing anyone to do anything. I simply pointed out the fact that your list of side effects could apply to so many other conditions out there. And you are using it as a platform not to have a child. If you don't want a child, don't have one. But stop hiding behind medical documentation. There is risk in everything we do and almost everything can kill us eventually. We can't all crawl into a hole. We have to live. And that was the point. Your reasoning centers around this massive list of bad things that could happen to a pregnant woman. So you have decided not to have children. And that is fine for you. But if everyone used this same sort of excuse not to do things in life we would never do anything. Do you drive? You do realize you are risking your life every time you go out on the road right? Do you continue to drive with that huge list of statistics you can pull up about the bad stuff that happens on the road? Of course you do. And that is the point. If you don't want children, just say it. But don't be afraid to have children.
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This is utterly absurd. I don't suggest that all women not want or have children, thereby causing the demise and destruction of our species. You really are all about the straw men, aren't you? If my mother had aborted me, guess what, I wouldn't know, let alone care. I don't believe I have a "right" to have been born. But I was. And now that I exist, and I don't depend on anyone else's body to sustain my life, I get to decide what happens to my body, through and including my death.
And for the record, I'm a married woman who loves children and would love to be pregnant if I could. My opinions on this subject have absolutely nothing to do with my personal choice, but with women's personal choice. Any woman. Under any circumstance.
Jane72, there really aren't adequate words to express my admiration for you. Thank you for all you've brought to the world.
No one said you advocated any of those things. What I said was if every woman out there thought as you do there would be no more children. Instead of talking about strawmen, why not really read the post you are responding to without wearing those blinders. You have taken nearly everything I have said out of context simply to argue with me. And that's a great retort about the abortion thing. Got a love it when people can tell you how they would feel about a non existent situation that they couldn't possibly know anything about. It was a rhetorical question for God sake. And furthermore, I think women should have absolute control over everything that happens to them if they are willing to take full responsibility for anything that happens to them. So, if a woman wants an abortion the father has nothing to say about it. Well then, if she decides to keep it and the dad wants out, he should have that option right? Since we are all about fairness and equality. There are so many cases where dad really wanted their aborted child. But there is nothing to protect that man. So yes, absolutely, women's right to choose under any circumstance. And the same rights for the men.
Also, Jane72, that was indeed an eloquent post. Thanks for posting and sharing your thoughts with us all. I believe I already rep'd you for it. Good post.
In fact, I have advocated women's rights to use birth control and condemned the current line of thinking this thread is based on.
I think a lot of us are on the same page regarding birth control. I quoted this sentence b/c I feel like so many people are going on about abortion, complications of pregnancy and the like, yet we are supposed to be discussing whether contraception is abortion. No, it is not. Is everybody happy?
ETA: People do need to read the posts, and not read stuff into them a little more on this thread, IMO.
If you don't want a child, don't have one. But stop hiding behind medical documentation. There is risk in everything we do and almost everything can kill us eventually. We can't all crawl into a hole. We have to live. And that was the point. Your reasoning centers around this massive list of bad things that could happen to a pregnant woman. So you have decided not to have children. And that is fine for you. But if everyone used this same sort of excuse not to do things in life we would never do anything. Do you drive? You do realize you are risking your life every time you go out on the road right? Do you continue to drive with that huge list of statistics you can pull up about the bad stuff that happens on the road? Of course you do. And that is the point. If you don't want children, just say it. But don't be afraid to have children.
No one said you advocated any of those things. What I said was if every woman out there thought as you do there would be no more children. Instead of talking about strawmen, why not really read the post you are responding to without wearing those blinders. You have taken nearly everything I have said out of context simply to argue with me. And that's a great retort about the abortion thing. Got a love it when people can tell you how they would feel about a non existent situation that they couldn't possibly know anything about. It was a rhetorical question for God sake.
Talk about not bothering to read what's been posted! Show me where I said I don't want children. Go on, I'll wait.
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Nothing, huh? Perhaps that's because I said the exact opposite.
As to the rest of your silliness, some people don't drive because they are afraid of the potential consequences. Some people don't fly because of the potential consequences. Some people don't even go outside because they are afraid of the potential consequences.
These are choices that everyone is entitled to make in their lives.
Some women don't take hormonal birth control because they are concerned about the potential consequences. Me, for instance. My mother died of breast cancer, and the increased risk of breast cancer in women taking hormonal contraceptives is a potential side effect that I have elected not to subject my body to.
And some women who find themselves pregnant, elect not to further the pregnancy because they do not want to subject their bodies to the potential consequences, not the least of which is a child, and the worst of which could potentially mean death, even if they're otherwise healthy.
Absolutely none of those women's choices means the doom of our existence.
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Originally Posted by Reads2MUCH
And furthermore, I think women should have absolute control over everything that happens to them if they are willing to take full responsibility for anything that happens to them. So, if a woman wants an abortion the father has nothing to say about it. Well then, if she decides to keep it and the dad wants out, he should have that option right? Since we are all about fairness and equality. There are so many cases where dad really wanted their aborted child. But there is nothing to protect that man. So yes, absolutely, women's right to choose under any circumstance. And the same rights for the men.
Actually, yes, I happen to agree with that. It's a fascinating topic that could stand some vigorous debate. Why don't you start a thread about it?
I'm curious about why many Pro-Life people are okay about abortions if the woman/girl is raped. What's the reasoning for making an exception in this case?
I don't believe that a woman has to be facing death for her to want an abortion. I think that puts the bar way too high. I do care that women have the right to make their own decisions about what risks they will and won't take. And had one of the men not declared that "motherhood, pregnancy and being a woman" does not suck, we wouldn't be talking about it.
I don't believe that women has to face death in order to want an abortion. I'll even go so far as to say that there are some very good non lethal reasons to want an abortion. All women don't love pregnancy any more then all women loathe it. It is highly individualistic, and that bears repeating.
Are you kidding?
It's been blatantly denied several times in this thread.
"Womanhood, pregnancy, and motherhood do not suck." Several times, such categorical claims have been made, and they're ridiculous.
Of course they suck, under certain circumstances.
Just because one hasn't experienced those circumstances doesn't mean that one should be blind to the fact that they exist.
Yes, I did say that womanhood and pregnancy does not suck but only in regard to a series of posts that had not one good or redeeming thing to say about being a woman, experiencing pregnancy or motherhood. Read back and perhaps you will see the flurry of posts that read like the merck manual on every possible complication of pregnancy from hemorrhoids to death as though they were equatable and common. Or that menstruation suddenly became a burden too great to bear, or that the glass ceiling has not improved in the last fifty years.
Yes, sometimes being a woman sucks. Sometimes being a man sucks too. Sometimes a woman is not happy to be pregnant, sometimes she is. Sometimes a pregnancy goes well, sometimes you get a hemorrhoid. I still say that all things being equal, being female does not suck and I do say that across the board. Sometimes yes - but then that is the risk one takes by being alive, isn't it?
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