Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 04-08-2016, 10:48 AM
 
29,551 posts, read 9,720,681 times
Reputation: 3472

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981 View Post
i know a lot of clear thinking liberals, actually, there are many clear thinking liberals on city data forum.

But many so called liberals are bullies who are also hateful. I wonder if they really know what "liberalism" means. Liberalism is a political philosophy or worldview founded on ideas of liberty and equality.
Profiling in general is mistake, just for starters...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 04-08-2016, 11:18 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,026 posts, read 44,840,107 times
Reputation: 13714
Quote:
Originally Posted by plannine View Post
Subprime refers to the credit quality of particular borrowers, not their income level.
OK, let's run with that...

Fannie Mae in 2000...
Quote:
"...Countrywide tends to follow the most flexible underwriting criteria permitted under GSE and FHA guidelines. Because Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac tend to give their best lenders access to the most flexible underwriting criteria, Countrywide benefits from its status as one of the largest originators of mortgage loans and one of the largest participants in the GSE [Affordable Lending] programs. When necessary—in cases where applicants have no established credit history, for example—Countrywide uses nontraditional credit, a practice accepted by the GSEs."
Published by Fannie Mae Foundation in 2000:
http://fcic-static.law.stanford.edu/cdn_media/fcic-docs/2000-00-00%20Fannie%20Mae%20Foundation%20Making%20New%20Ma rkets.pdf

Now you know why Mozilo didn't go to jail... the Government-Sponsored Enterprises (Fannie and Freddie) were complicit in what Countrywide did. They TOLD Countrywide and other lenders that they wanted to buy loans that didn't meet prime lending standards in order to meet HUD's Affordable Lending goals (what a misnomer that turned out to be) established before 2000.

https://www.huduser.gov/portal/Publications/PDF/gse.pdf
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-08-2016, 11:31 AM
 
29,551 posts, read 9,720,681 times
Reputation: 3472
[quote=InformedConsent;43644998 the Government-Sponsored Enterprises (Fannie and Freddie) were complicit in what Countrywide did.[/QUOTE]

Who WASN'T "complicit" all considered?

That's the problem with the whole go-to-jail issue, we'd need to build a good many more jails...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-09-2016, 06:05 AM
 
10,829 posts, read 5,436,622 times
Reputation: 4710
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
OK, let's run with that...

Fannie Mae in 2000...
Published by Fannie Mae Foundation in 2000:
http://fcic-static.law.stanford.edu/cdn_media/fcic-docs/2000-00-00%20Fannie%20Mae%20Foundation%20Making%20New%20Ma rkets.pdf

Now you know why Mozilo didn't go to jail... the Government-Sponsored Enterprises (Fannie and Freddie) were complicit in what Countrywide did. They TOLD Countrywide and other lenders that they wanted to buy loans that didn't meet prime lending standards in order to meet HUD's Affordable Lending goals (what a misnomer that turned out to be) established before 2000.

https://www.huduser.gov/portal/Publications/PDF/gse.pdf
Well said.

The democrooks will never take responsibility for what they did.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-09-2016, 08:33 AM
 
29,551 posts, read 9,720,681 times
Reputation: 3472
Quote:
Originally Posted by dechatelet View Post
Well said.

The democrooks will never take responsibility for what they did.
No doubt we all remember back then when the Republicants kept waving that red flag, trying to save us all, but nobody would listen to them! All the way right up to 2009, insisting the house of cards was coming down, explaining what wrong was being done, the harm that would come. Okay, there was the Iraq war that might have distracted some of them, but well...

Hey! With the Iraq war too! Just when will those Democrooks take responsibility?

But seriously folks! Who were the bundlers?

The subprime mortgage crisis arose from 'bundling' American subprime and American regular mortgages into MBSs which were traditionally isolated from, and sold in a separate market from, prime loans. These 'bundles' of mixed (prime and subprime) mortgages were based on asset-backed securities so the 'probable' rate of return looked superb (since subprime lenders pay higher premiums on loans secured against saleable real-estate which, theoretically, "could not fail"). Many mortgages had a low interest for the first year, and poorer buyers defaults were 'swapped' regularly at first, but finally such borrowers began to default in large numbers. The inflated house-price bubble burst, property valuations plummeted and the real rate of return on investment could not be estimated, and so confidence in these instruments collapsed, and all less than prime mortgages were considered to be almost worthless toxic assets, regardless of their actual composition or performance. Because of the "originate-to-distribute" model followed by many subprime mortgage originators, there was little monitoring of credit quality and little effort at remediation when these mortgages became troubled.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-09-2016, 08:34 AM
 
29,551 posts, read 9,720,681 times
Reputation: 3472
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamSmyth View Post
No. Fannie and Freddie were not guaranteeing all mortgage loans. There was a whole loan securitization eco-system that had nothing to do with Fannie and Freddie. That is what it means when Fannie and Freddie only had 40% of the market. At the height of the bubble 60% of the market was not passing through Fannie and Freddie and therefore those loans were not guaranteed by Fannie and Freddie.

Because the loans were not guaranteed by Fannie and Freddie the Investment Banks would bundle their CDOs with "inurance" from AIG in the form of Credit Default Swaps (CDS). Which led the formally triple A rated AIG to bankruptcy.

What was the motive of the Investment Banks? Profits.

Until the bubble burst this was a highly profitable business for Investment Banks. They could sell all the loans they could acquire. Through the alchemy of the CDO marketplace the Investment Banks could, or believed they could, turn sub-prime loans into triple A rate investments. In fact sub-prime loans were in higher demand because they could be used to create CDOs with higher yields (until the bubble burst), which made the CDOs more attractive.

Investment Banks like Merrill Lynch were so desperate for a supply of sub-prime loans that they started to buy sub-prime originators even as the default rates on sub-prime loans was growing.

National City sells First Franklin to Merrill for $1.3 billion - MarketWatch

The deal includes Merrill's purchase of affiliated businesses National City Home Loan Services and NationPoint. In a separate transaction, National City said it also expects to sell to Merrill $5.6 billion of First Franklin's originated mortgage loans.
[...]
Merrill, meanwhile, sells mortgages to the credit market, so-called securitization, in the form of mortgage-backed securities.
"These leading mortgage origination and servicing franchises will add scale to our platform and create meaningful synergies with our securitization and trading operations," said Dow Kim, president of Merrill Lynch's Global Markets and Investment Banking Group in a statement.

Investment Banks also created synthetic CDOs where they didn't even own the underlining mortgages.

In short this was not something Investment Banks were forced to do. Its something they wanted to do because it was highly profitable.

Investment Banks didn't have FDIC insurance and were less regulated than bank holding companies. In the wake of the bubble bursting the last 2 big Investment Banks changed their status to bank holding companies.

Goldman, Morgan to become holding companies - MarketWatch

In yet another extraordinary development for Wall Street, the Federal Reserve said late Sunday night that venerable investment banks Goldman Sachs and Morgan Stanley will become bank holding companies, subjecting themselves to stricter federal oversight.
[...]
The Fed's move is the latest milestone in a jaw-dropping couple of weeks for Wall Street and American business. Goldman and Morgan were the last two independent investment banks, following the filing for bankruptcy of Lehman Brothers LEH and the acquiring of Bear Stearns by JP Morgan this spring. Bank of America, meanwhile, is buying Merrill Lynch MER.
Well said.

The Republicants will never understand all this or stop wanting to blame all wrongs on Democrats, no matter what the truth may be...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-09-2016, 08:39 AM
 
29,551 posts, read 9,720,681 times
Reputation: 3472
The Path to a Crisis

Was this the case of one group or one company falling asleep at the wheel? Is this the result of too little oversight, too much greed, or simply not enough understanding? As is often the case when financial markets go awry, the answer is likely "all the above"

Remember, the market we are watching today is a byproduct of the market of six years ago. Rewind back to late 2001, when fear of global terror attacks after Sept. 11 roiled an already-struggling economy, one that was just beginning to come out of the recession induced by the tech bubble of the late 1990s.

In response, during 2001, the Federal Reserve began cutting rates dramatically, and the fed funds rate arrived at 1% in 2003, which in central banking parlance is essentially zero. The goal of a low federal funds rate is to expand the money supply and encourage borrowing, which should spur spending and investing. The idea that spending was "patriotic" was widely propagated and everyone - from the White House down to the local parent-teacher association - encouraged us to buy, buy, buy.

It worked, and the economy began to steadily expand in 2002.

Real Estate Begins to Look Attractive

As lower interest rates worked their way into the economy, the real estate market began to work itself into a frenzy as the number of homes sold - and the prices they sold for - increased dramatically beginning in 2002. At the time, the rate on a 30-year fixed-rate mortgage was at the lowest levels seen in nearly 40 years, and people saw a unique opportunity to gain access into just about cheapest source of equity available.

Investment Banks, and the Asset-Backed Security

If the housing market had only been dealt a decent hand - say, one with low interest rates and rising demand - any problems would have been fairly contained. Unfortunately, it was dealt a fantastic hand, thanks to new financial products being spun on Wall Street. These new products ended up being spread far and wide and were included in pension funds, hedge funds and international governments.

And, as we're now learning, many of these products ended up being worth absolutely nothing.

A Simple Idea Leads to Big Problems

The asset-backed security (ABS) has been around for decades, and at its core lies a simple investment principle: Take a bunch of assets that have predictable and similar cash flows (like an individual's home mortgage), bundle them into one managed package that collects all of the individual payments (the mortgage payments), and use the money to pay investors a coupon on the managed package. This creates an asset-backed security in which the underlying real estate acts as collateral.

Another big plus was that credit rating agencies such as Moody's and Standard & Poor's would put their 'AAA' or 'A+' stamp of approval on many of these securities, signaling their relative safety as an investment.

The advantage for the investor is that he or she can acquire a diversified portfolio of fixed-income assets that arrive as one coupon payment.

The Government National Mortgage Association (Ginnie Mae) had been bundling and selling securitized mortgages as ABSs for years; their 'AAA' ratings had always had the guarantee that Ginnie Mae's government backing had afforded . Investors gained a higher yield than on Treasuries, and Ginnie Mae was able to use the funding to offer new mortgages.

Widening the Margins

Thanks to an exploding real estate market, an updated form of the ABS was also being created, only these ABSs were being stuffed with subprime mortgage loans, or loans to buyers with less-than-stellar credit.

Subprime loans, along with their much higher default risks, were placed into different risk classes, or tranches, each of which came with its own repayment schedule. Upper tranches were able to receive 'AAA' ratings - even if they contained subprime loans - because these tranches were promised the first dollars that came into the security. Lower tranches carried higher coupon rates to compensate for the increased default risk. All the way at the bottom, the "equity" tranche was a highly speculative investment, as it could have its cash flows essentially wiped out if the default rate on the entire ABS crept above a low level - in the range of 5 to 7%.

All of a sudden, even the subprime mortgage lenders had an avenue to sell their risky debt, which in turn enabled them to market this debt even more aggressively. Wall Street was there to pick up their subprime loans, package them up with other loans (some quality, some not), and sell them off to investors. In addition, nearly 80% of these bundled securities magically became investment grade ('A' rated or higher), thanks to the rating agencies, which earned lucrative fees for their work in rating the ABSs.

As a result of this activity, it became very profitable to originate mortgages - even risky ones. It wasn't long before even basic requirements like proof of income and a down payment were being overlooked by mortgage lenders; 125% loan-to-value mortgages were being underwritten and given to prospective homeowners. The logic being that with real estate prices rising so fast (median home prices were rising as much as 14% annually by 2005), a 125% LTV mortgage would be above water in less than two years.

The Fuel That Fed The Subprime Meltdown | Investopedia

Not that the real truth matters all that much when your political ideology insists otherwise...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-10-2016, 03:49 AM
 
10,829 posts, read 5,436,622 times
Reputation: 4710
The Democrats destroyed the economy, and that has just been one small part of their agenda to destroy America.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-10-2016, 07:48 AM
 
29,551 posts, read 9,720,681 times
Reputation: 3472
Quote:
Originally Posted by dechatelet View Post
The Democrats destroyed the economy, and that has just been one small part of their agenda to destroy America.
Would that be anything like your agenda to destroy these threads with comments like that?

Nothing but unsubstantiated bluster..., that sort of thing works for you in general does it? Can't imagine how.

Closest thing to heckling the rest of us must endure I suppose...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-10-2016, 08:57 AM
 
Location: Nashville, TN
1,951 posts, read 1,636,388 times
Reputation: 1577
Quote:
Originally Posted by LearnMe View Post
Would that be anything like your agenda to destroy these threads with comments like that?

Nothing but unsubstantiated bluster..., that sort of thing works for you in general does it? Can't imagine how.

Closest thing to heckling the rest of us must endure I suppose...
If you ignore all of the evidence presented so far, sure.

This is like sleeping through an entire trial, waking up at the end of the closing argument, and saying "you can't just say 'I rest my case'! You need to present evidence!"
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:22 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top