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Most of the supporters of the health care reform being slammed through by Pelosi and others do not even know what is in this nightmare. So we get herded like sheep according to our afflictions or our age? What compasion, makes me tear up.
I just spent two days at the ER and then the county Burn Ward with my son who set fire to himself. I watched an overcrowded, overburdened bunch of young doctors trying to take care of too many people. Most of the people down at the county facility don't have any insurance and some did appear to be here either with green cards or illegally, but I will not make that assumption based on the inability to speak English alone. The issue is that anyone can and will be treated thanks to the tax payers already. Why we want to screw up this system even more is beyond me. Reducing the salaries of the medical staff and including the treatment of every person creeping into this country will not work. We will have a system of rationing and I suspect most of us will be on the bottom of the list...each according to their need or perhaps worth.
First of all, I hope your son recovers soon.
Secondly, you are talking about treatment for a life threatening condition. I think a lot of people complaining about health care reform don't really know what is going on right now. According to a law passed in 1991, when you enter a hospital, you, or your representative, must instruct the hospital if you want extraordinary measures used on you if the situation presents itself. It sure as h*** helps if you have thought this through and made some decisions.
We had a heck of a time when my 97 year old father in law (may he rest in peace) became ill for the last time. My MIL wanted "everything". My SIL counseled her extensively about what that meant. Eventually, dad went into a hospice, which everybody loved, but it was not w/o a lot of work. Part of the problem was that my inlaws, especially my FIL, acted like they were never going to die. They didn't want to discuss it. One time when my MIL tried to discuss burial plots with dad, he asked "Do you think I'm going to die?". He was 90+ at the time.
You would think that JS would know some of the above in the first para, being an RPh and all, but maybe she doesn't work in a hospital/nursing home.
DANG! I'm almost 63 years old. I've had a power of attorney for health care for almost 20 years, periodically updated even, as well as a will and good estate planning. I am well aware of my medical benefits as they are now and Medicare is no mystery to me. In fact, I have life-long prescription benefits from my retirement so I never need to enroll in Part D. I am also well-versed in both hospice and in-home care provisions.
What I am saying is that I am perfectly capable of making my own decisions, including any pertaining to my eventual assumption of room temperature. I DO not need government to lead me around by the hand or the nose.
How unfortunate that the concept of PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY is lost on so many!
Then you don't have to use it.
Show me where it says it is mandatory.
What is wrong with informing people of their options and having them make informed decisions about their care?
Why have another Terry Schiavo case on our hands?
According to a law passed in 1991, when you enter a hospital, you, or your representative, must instruct the hospital if you want extraordinary measures used on you if the situation presents itself. It sure as h*** helps if you have thought this through and made some decisions.
We had a heck of a time when my 97 year old father in law (may he rest in peace) became ill for the last time. My MIL wanted "everything". My SIL counseled her extensively about what that meant. Eventually, dad went into a hospice, which everybody loved, but it was not w/o a lot of work. Part of the problem was that my inlaws, especially my FIL, acted like they were never going to die. They didn't want to discuss it. One time when my MIL tried to discuss burial plots with dad, he asked "Do you think I'm going to die?". He was 90+ at the time.
My work as a medical coder has exposed me to nearly a quarter million inpatient cases, and I'm afraid your family's situation is not at all uncommon.
What the bill in question is attempting to prevent are scenarios such as yours and instances of patient incapacity for making end-of-life decisions.
One of the worst cases I ever came across was a nursing home patient admitted for respiratory failure and CVA (stroke). She was left aphasic (unable to speak) from the CVA, and had to be intubated and placed on a ventilator.
Her adult son--who had been an unwanted but constant presence at the nursing home, interfering with her care, preventing her from signing an Advance Directive (per NH documents and interviews), and possibly subjecting her to verbal/physical abuse--demanded that she be maintained on ventilation even after most brain activity ceased. He had also demanded that invasive procedures be performed on her that the physicians informed him would not affect her prognosis.
Several internal ethics meetings were held about her case, and the son refused to attend the ones he was invited to.
By the time Adult Protective Services got involved, the patient expired. She had been intubated for well over TWO MONTHS.
Someone needs to advocate for the patient's wishes, and the intent of the bill provision is to reduce the amount of elderly patients from NOT making their requests known and implemented.
Last edited by rayneinspain; 07-24-2009 at 06:01 PM..
Reason: forgot a word
Dr. Obama knows more about treating patients than us physicians. Leave it up to a lawyer to determine the health care delivery model while leaving free reign for personal injury lawyers to file frivolous lawsuits and drive up the cost of health care; Obama said he would not place caps on punitive damages in lawsuits meaning Obama would allow lawyers to sue for millions of dollars outside of the fees that would be used to pay for all costs including losses of future earnings. One lawyer said that if caps were placed on lawsuits, the average attorney fee would only be $85,000 per case, yeah, it shows who the President supports. He would rather have doctors and nurses earn less than the trial attorneys you see on TV who are racking up millions
Dr. Obama knows more about treating patients than us physicians. Leave it up to a lawyer to determine the health care delivery model while leaving free reign for personal injury lawyers to file frivolous lawsuits and drive up the cost of health care; Obama said he would not place caps on punitive damages in lawsuits meaning Obama would allow lawyers to sue for millions of dollars outside of the fees that would be used to pay for all costs and loss of future earnings. Thanks Barrack
And that has what, exactly, to do with the topic at hand?
I think what some people do not realize, whether you are a medical professional or not, is that discussing living wills, long term, etc. is VERY different than being FORCED to go to a Doctor -who is appointed for you, you do not get to choose- every five years -even when you are healthy- to discuss options FOR YOUR DEATH so you can 'die with dignity'.
it is clearly one thing to make 'arrangements' for certain things throughout your life -including your death, however, I personally feel that it is quite WRONG to be told that once I turn 65, even if I am in perfectly good health, that I must go to a pre-appointed doctor to discuss MY DEATH. Doctor's are supposed to be there to assist in EXTENDING LIFE...not making arrangements for DEATH. This goes to the assumption that once a person turns 65, they are doomed.
Guess what? Every day, we ALL get a little closer to dying. That is a fact. However, there is no reason ANYONE should be subjected to going to a physician in order to discuss how they plan to die. That's morbid and unrealistic.
This is my point as well. It's one thing to encourage and another thing entirely to mandate a certain series of appointments related to this. Although this is an important subject, there is something to be said for personal responsibility as well. I know that I would rather spend my time treating patients than discussing legal issues that should be discussed among a patient and his or her family. I already discuss these issues with my patients briefly. I don't feel that a patient should be compelled to meet with their PCP to discuss this issue every 5 years. Furthermore, having a series of appointments doesn't automatically mean a patient will take the initiative to have an AD done.
So the point is Obama will rather allocate costs toward discussing AD's with patients rather than paying for a surgery or an imaging test that is needed? This is where your health care dollars are going to go. So I won't be able to order an echocardiogram on a patient that doesn't meet all the classical signs of valvulopathy even though my experience and insticts tells me to do but we will spend money on needless visits to discuss creating an AD.
A year before my Mom died we sat down and had a very long talk. She told me that she did not want to become a science experiment to see how long they could keep her alive. She wanted me to make sure these wishes were carried out and went to see an attorney for an Advanced Directive. I was appointed her Health Proxy and given Power of Attorney. Mom even made her own funeral arrangements around the same time. Mom's death went according to HER wishes. I don't think she needed any doctor to "counsel" her.
I am 60 myself now. Maybe my views don't coincide with many of yours, but I feel the same as my Mom. I don't want my life prolonged either to become a science experience, or a vegetable.
My Mom died with DIGNITY; HER view of DIGNITY, not anybody elses.
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