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Americans at one time were proud to be Americans; generally thought of themselves as "good" people, and were generally liked by most of the world, and respected by those who didn't like them. Today, we don't like ourselves..we don't like each other...and we're reviled in much of the world, hated by many, and regarded as 'idiots' elsewhere. We have immigrants who hate us, native-born Americans who hate each other, and native-born Americans who apparently hate themselves. We have politicians we don't trust, and who apparently don't feel any need to BE trusted. We have poor people who hate rich people, religions which hate each other, and secularists who hate the religious. We have whole groups of people in Mexico, our next door neighbor, MAD at Obama..OUR President..because he's "failing to deliver on his promises to THEM" (!) That's right, they're mad at Obama because he 'misled' them! Since when does the President of ONE country make 'promises' to the people of ANOTHER country? Is that what YOU call the actions of a 'self-respecting' society?
Was American ever literally "one"?. No..of course not.NO slogan is ever the 'literal truth'. But I've talked to MANY an elderly person, MANY of them minorities...who, if they didn't have an exactly idyllic life, at LEAST were cognizant of the fact that this was a pretty "good" country...and I've talked to many MANY an immigrant..(even the illegal ones)..who made no secret of the fact that if life was tough HERE..it beat the hell out of life "back home". I don't hear much of that anymore. Today, immigrants speak HIGHLY of "back home". Their anger is directed HERE....at us.
Today, we have people who (as a guy said on the forum just last week to me) "Don't owe Americans a THING". (This coming from a first-generation American, born, presumably, of a refugee couple from a communist country). People today "don't owe a THING" to our society....they feel society owes THEM. And when it fails to deliver, they become angry and hateful.
Were we ever really "one"?. No...Not literally, maybe. But what are we NOW? A "big happy family"? How does the world regard us...as a "shining beacon"? Or as a "swap meet" of freebies....get in, get your share, and SCREAM like HELL if you miss anything.....And then, when they don't get it, they get mad.
Our fault as a society I suppose....you try to be a "nice guy" and it just doesn't work...the message becomes, you're a 'patsy'. Far better to DEMAND respect from immigrants and others...we'd probably not only get better results, we MIGHT even end up being liked and respected. What an idea THAT would be !..
I agree with you. Why should white Americans apologize for the greatest society that ever existed in the history of the Earth so far? This country was settled by 90% whites and of course some blacks and a few others. Should we apologize for that? It was the freest and most prosperous and the best country to ever live in thus far in the history of the world. It was a country created in the fear of the Lord God almighty Himself regardless of what the whacked out public school teachers are telling the younger generation. And you think diversity is good? What happened in the former Yugoslavia that was so diverse in culture and religion? Nobody, and I mean nobody, is going to make me apologize for being white or for what this nation was for the past 250 years or so. Pat Buchanan is right. We are being torn apart by diversity, not made better by it. I puke when I read all the jobs ads on the internet, "we are a company that values diversity and blah blah blah". The democrats are pushing this diversity crap on us because they want a lock on minority votes, and republicans don't challenge them because of our horrendous abortion problem for the past 35 years. They want replacements (non-whites) to hold down wages and not make labor so scarce.
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal
You COULD be onto something there. As far as I know, there is NO example of any society, anytime in the past, that enjoyed a free, prosperous, benign' liberal lifestyle AND had a multicultural society. The very notion is less than 40 years old...and today, the larg majority of the world's population would look at 'multiculturalism' as simply nonsense. They HAVE a culture, of their own, and see no reason to 'accomodate' others. If 'others' wish to join them, these 'others' are expected to conform. ONLY in 'The West ', as we might say.
The world is FULL of countries...(and EX-countries) which tried....and failed...to include 2, 3, or more cultural systems within one country. Some no longer exist, having broken into their component 'pieces'. Some continue under brutal authoritarian governments, having no freedom to disagree with each other..and some, as we speak, today, are engaged in years-long 'ethnic cleansing' warfare..because, though they live in the same country, they just can't STAND the cultures of their neighbors.
Pretty dismal track record, I'm afraid, this notion of 'multiculturalism'. So we now suddenly feel that disparate, mutually-antagonistic groups, from all over the world, will now be able to 'show up' here....will NOT be expected to assimilate to any US culture...will NOT be asked to 'change'...yet will all "like" us Americans..AND "like" each OTHER? And we'll all live happily ever after? Boy, would I like THAT one explained! I just don't get it.
Cultures don't hold each other in high regard...they hold THEMSELVES i high regard. Cultures don't look at other cultures as "equals"...they look at each other as "different". A wide variety of cultures works FINE, across an ocean...or across a mountain range...or across a border. But across a backyard fence? Or across a street? A variety of cultures would imply a variety of behaviors, and ways of looking at things..AND reasons for getting insulted. Good luck with THAT !!...
Culture is behavior. People get irritated, insulted, annoyed, and angry at 'behavior' they see as inappropriate. And 'appropriateness' is a term dependent on 'the culture of the beholder'. One man's 'statement' is another man's outrageous lie. And BOTH parties are "right".
I agree with you. Why should white Americans apologize for the greatest society that ever existed in the history of the Earth so far? This country was settled by 90% whites and of course some blacks and a few others. Should we apologize for that? It was the freest and most prosperous and the best country to ever live in thus far in the history of the world. It was a country created in the fear of the Lord God almighty Himself regardless of what the whacked out public school teachers are telling the younger generation. And you think diversity is good? What happened in the former Yugoslavia that was so diverse in culture and religion? Nobody, and I mean nobody, is going to make me apologize for being white or for what this nation was for the past 250 years or so. Pat Buchanan is right. We are being torn apart by diversity, not made better by it. I puke when I read all the jobs ads on the internet, "we are a company that values diversity and blah blah blah". The democrats are pushing this diversity crap on us because they want a lock on minority votes, and republicans don't challenge them because of our horrendous abortion problem for the past 35 years. They want replacements (non-whites) to hold down wages and not make labor so scarce.
I am speaking about whites who want blacks, et al, to behave and think a certain way that is acceptable to them as Americans, but do not want to accept them equally as Americans. Is that hard to understand?
Absolutely ludicrous. The fact that you are even insinuating that blacks rely on the state at all as a default state destroys your "logic.":
1. I understand that fine but your statement was calling out white America for something done only by a few. Clearly a racist statement.
2. What is ludicrous-the statement I made? I suppose I should spell it out for you:I made that statement ridiculous on purpose for the point of showing you how ridiculous your generalizations are.
Very few whites want to deny black people the same social status. They seem like a lot to you because you probably seek them out to justify your anger. We do want everyone to somewhat conform to American ideals though, as multiculturalism has never been stable in the long-run in human history.
No hypocrisy there.
Due to the transgressions of Europeans empires and individuals in the past, white people/cultures are morally and socially illegitimite. Therefore, any attempt to defend or advocate on the behalf of indigienous europeans or their cultural institutions is a statement of white supremecy and an affront to non-european individuals. The removal or dissoultion of european people/influences in society is desired and accepted as karmatic justice due to historical misdeeds.
White Supremecy:
Due to the historical achievements of European societies, europeans represent an advanced and superior civilzation that must defend itself against those from societies deemed not to be on the same sociological learning curve. Physical and cultural miscongrenation represent a threat to the historical advancement and domaince of european people and must be fought.
IMHO, both views are disgusting and outdated. Pat Buchanan does unfortunetly represent a mindset of a certain sector of society that feels the "Brownization" of America is at issue. He, like most bigots post-Civil Rights era, has simply learned how to convey is ideals in beign and coded language.
Having said that however: He does point out the double standard regarding race and white people. I've known Black women who openly state their desire to "Keep it dark" w/ regards to dating, for example. A white woman who thinks similarly would be considered a social pariah. In my book, either whites have a racial identity or they don't. The left loves to remind the western world that there is "No such thing as European/White culture", except when it's time to collect the ethnic vote, and then all of the sudden "Them eeeeeeeeeeevil blonde folks" 24/7.....
You COULD be onto something there. As far as I know, there is NO example of any society, anytime in the past, that enjoyed a free, prosperous, benign' liberal lifestyle AND had a multicultural society. The very notion is less than 40 years old...and today, the larg majority of the world's population would look at 'multiculturalism' as simply nonsense. They HAVE a culture, of their own, and see no reason to 'accomodate' others. If 'others' wish to join them, these 'others' are expected to conform. ONLY in 'The West ', as we might say.
The world is FULL of countries...(and EX-countries) which tried....and failed...to include 2, 3, or more cultural systems within one country. Some no longer exist, having broken into their component 'pieces'. Some continue under brutal authoritarian governments, having no freedom to disagree with each other..and some, as we speak, today, are engaged in years-long 'ethnic cleansing' warfare..because, though they live in the same country, they just can't STAND the cultures of their neighbors.
Pretty dismal track record, I'm afraid, this notion of 'multiculturalism'. So we now suddenly feel that disparate, mutually-antagonistic groups, from all over the world, will now be able to 'show up' here....will NOT be expected to assimilate to any US culture...will NOT be asked to 'change'...yet will all "like" us Americans..AND "like" each OTHER? And we'll all live happily ever after? Boy, would I like THAT one explained! I just don't get it.
Cultures don't hold each other in high regard...they hold THEMSELVES i high regard. Cultures don't look at other cultures as "equals"...they look at each other as "different". A wide variety of cultures works FINE, across an ocean...or across a mountain range...or across a border. But across a backyard fence? Or across a street? A variety of cultures would imply a variety of behaviors, and ways of looking at things..AND reasons for getting insulted. Good luck with THAT !!...
Culture is behavior. People get irritated, insulted, annoyed, and angry at 'behavior' they see as inappropriate. And 'appropriateness' is a term dependent on 'the culture of the beholder'. One man's 'statement' is another man's outrageous lie. And BOTH parties are "right".
Good luck....we'll need it.
Well put, the graveyard of failed multi-cultural states is large. It's just human nature to get along with those that come from the same background and share the same customs as you. That's the bare-bones reason why Yugoslavia carved itself up into bloody pieces after the unifying effect of the Soviet Union had gone. That's even one reason why the Soviet Union failed! Many ethnic minorities in the Union despised the culturally and ethnically different Russians and were only in the empire by necessity. See the Chechnya problem today. What besides religious animosity separated India and Pakistan after the British Empire withdrew?
Why are the countries of the world with so many cultural groups and languages (some have more than 10 official languages) usually the most violent and unstable? Africa is such a basket case today in part by the ridiculous borders drawn by the colonial powers which didn't respect people's ethnic, cultural, or religious affiliation. Instead, different tribes were forced into the same nations and the blood from this stupidity still flows in the streets.
It's long been said that a house divided can't stand so why do people think there is no wind now? Globalization and connectivity in modern times has sped up the process of state evolution so there has never been a clearer imperative to be unified, not diverse.
Many multi-cult proponents point to the Roman Empire as an example of a prosperous multi-cultural society that lasted for a long time. But Rome was a pure empire, of which nothing has resembled it in centuries. The Empire was more like a more extreme version of the EU with members united by the Latin language, currency, and Roman citizenship. It was never a state since the days of the republic. Either way, Rome eventually fell due in large part of having no "center". It became too diverse to hold together.
Multi-culturalism is only a dream by idealists. Many Europeans are realizing this, the rest of the world has known all along, yet America still champions "diversity" as the most admirable trait a group can possess.
P.S. I refer to ethnic group and culture almost synonymously because throughout most of history they have been inseparable. Today this is not the case, as millions of white, black, brown, and "yellow" Americans demonstrate that a culture can exist with similar family values, emphasis on education, enthusiasm for American history and democracy, all without having to be the same race. Unfortunately millions more actively seek to discredit this notion.
P.S. I refer to ethnic group and culture almost synonymously because throughout most of history they have been inseparable. Today this is not the case, as millions of white, black, brown, and "yellow" Americans demonstrate that a culture can exist with similar family values, emphasis on education, enthusiasm for American history and democracy, all without having to be the same race. Unfortunately millions more actively seek to discredit this notion.
Exactly. My own family demonstrates this...several races; MANY ethnicities....one basic American culture. Thanks for "getting" this...America isn't a 'herditary' society; it's not organized around a religion or a race; it's an artificial, man-made 'construct'....a culture that ANYONE can belong to, who wants to. The key word is 'wanting' to......
Due to the transgressions of Europeans empires and individuals in the past, white people/cultures are morally and socially illegitimite. Therefore, any attempt to defend or advocate on the behalf of indigienous europeans or their cultural institutions is a statement of white supremecy and an affront to non-european individuals. The removal or dissoultion of european people/influences in society is desired and accepted as karmatic justice due to historical misdeeds.
White Supremecy:
Due to the historical achievements of European societies, europeans represent an advanced and superior civilzation that must defend itself against those from societies deemed not to be on the same sociological learning curve. Physical and cultural miscongrenation represent a threat to the historical advancement and domaince of european people and must be fought.
IMHO, both views are disgusting and outdated. ..
I agree that both views are disgusting but I think you've gotten the definition of white supremacy a little off. There is nothing wrong with a civilization recognizing (or at least claiming) that it is the most advanced. Sociological learning curves DO vary, as they are a result of nurture instead of nature. How has Western civilization collectively invented so many things, produced so many fine items of culture, been so successful in coming up with new governments (democracy), etc, etc if not for some inherent advantage buried in its culture or psyche? The Muslim caliphates had tremendous advances in mathematics, science, and medicine, and the Chinese were once very inventive and commercially savvy (still are). Yet Western civ has the most to show for itself and this has nothing to do with racism. Culturalism if anything, but not racism.
The part in bold is more accurate definition, as is the belief that someone who is white is somehow better than someone else by virtue of their race is "White supremacist".
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well done i like this.
