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No, it is suitable to include the GLBT movement in history courses in public schools when it's relevant - that is, in the context of other Civil Rights issues in the US. To not discuss it is to be exclusionary and deliberately dismissive of an entire minority group with an important history.
First, you asked nicely about the reasons for voting no. Then, you get miffed when people tell you how they feel. Please, if you cannot handle the answers, then don't ask the question.
You are not getting my point. To me, it is a matter of priorities.
As a parent of four children who attended public schools, and a taxpayer who consistently votes in favor of higher school taxes, I want the basics addressed first.
Reading, Writing, Mathematics and Science are infinitely more important to me than "the history of an entire minority group with an important history". I AM a member of several minority groups, and each has "an important history".
I have been excluded, dismissed, discriminated against and verbally abused. Historically speaking, there are many minority groups that have suffered over time. So, take a number like everybody else. Your particular minority group is not more "important" than other minority groups.
Parenting skills are lacking all across the board. Teachers have a hard time teaching the basics to kids who lack the most basic social skills. Before any monies are spent addressing your particular interests, or mine for that matter, I want the basics addressed first. I do not want religion in the classrooms, but I'd like to see a mandatory "life skills" class taught in every grade from K-12. Such life skills class would teach children how to say "please" and "thank you" for starters. Teach kids about actions and consequences, money management, priorities, about not stealing, killing or lying. Teaching manners and kindness to all people. Too many parents today fail to do that at home.
Taking care of the basics allow children to learn more about other subjects later on.
Sure, rewriting the US history books or the civics books, to include LGBT "history" is possible, but you'll be lucky to get 15 minutes worth of coverage in the classroom. Why? Because there are a lot of other "minorities" also and they deserve "equal time" too.
That is why I suggested a college level course where you can discuss the subject for an entire semester with proper books, resources and ample time. Do it right or don't do it at all.
First, you asked nicely about the reasons for voting no. Then, you get miffed when people tell you how they feel. Please, if you cannot handle the answers, then don't ask the question.
How you "feel" is not suitable justification for excluding what should be common knowledge.
I handle the answers by refusing to give answers such as your own authority or credibility.
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You are not getting my point. To me, it is a matter of priorities.
How selective of you. I guess we should just get rid of the Civil Rights curriculum in public schools all together and focus on such priorities, since you seem so fond of arbitrarily using such a standard to weigh the importance of some history over others.
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As a parent of four children who attended public schools, and a taxpayer who consistently votes in favor of higher school taxes, I want the basics addressed first.
Ridiculous. How does incorporating GLBT issues into history lessons take away from focus on the basics. This stance is absurd.
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Reading, Writing, Mathematics and Science are infinitely more important to me than "the history of an entire minority group with an important history". I AM a member of several minority groups, and each has "an important history".
Then do away with history all together, but do not propose to exclude a legitimate minority from history discussions.
And, chances are, if you are a member of several minority groups that are relevant to US history, then they are already included in history lessons.
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I have been excluded, dismissed, discriminated against and verbally abused. Historically speaking, there are many minority groups that have suffered over time. So, take a number like everybody else. Your particular minority group is not more "important" than other minority groups.
I never said it was - that is your interpretation and (bigoted) projection onto this topic. I am talking about incorporating GLBT history into the Civil Rights movement - BECAUSE IT IS A MAJOR PART OF IT. If you can show me how your particular minority groups that you are a part of are relevant to US history and play a defining role, I'll be happy to hear it.
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Parenting skills are lacking all across the board. Teachers have a hard time teaching the basics to kids who lack the most basic social skills. Before any monies are spent addressing your particular interests, or mine for that matter, I want the basics addressed first. I do not want religion in the classrooms, but I'd like to see a mandatory "life skills" class taught in every grade from K-12. Such life skills class would teach children how to say "please" and "thank you" for starters. Teach kids about actions and consequences, money management, priorities, about not stealing, killing or lying. Teaching manners and kindness to all people. Too many parents today fail to do that at home.
These are parental responsibilities, not a teacher's or public school's responsibilities, and they are COMPLETELY irrelevant to the topic at hand. If anything, YOU and those like you are the ones advocating "special courses" such as "Life Skills" to be taught, which shouldn't even be the focus of public schools since those are inherently value-laden.
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Taking care of the basics allow children to learn more about other subjects later on.
That is bs and, again, a false premise with which to interpret the concerns of this thread.
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Sure, rewriting the US history books or the civics books, to include LGBT "history" is possible, but you'll be lucky to get 15 minutes worth of coverage in the classroom. Why? Because there are a lot of other "minorities" also and they deserve "equal time" too.
I LOVE the quotes on LGBT "history." Yep, shows me exactly the kind of person I'm dealing with (not that I wasn't aware of it, already).
And, there is no "rewriting" history. THIS HAS ALREADY HAPPENED AND IT IS NOT EMPHASIZED AND IN MANY CASES NOT INCLUDED IN HISTORY LESSONS PERTAINING TO CIVIL RIGHTS ISSUES IN AMERICA.
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That is why I suggested a college level course where you can discuss the subject for an entire semester with proper books, resources and ample time. Do it right or don't do it at all.
You suggested it for the same reason other people did - bigotry and prejudice. You don't want kids learning about certain minority groups who are extremely relevant and part of American history. You want kids to remain ignorant about things to suit your own preferences. Own up to your own issues and stop trying to evade what is clear from your opposition and feeble justifications for exclusion.
How you "feel" is not suitable justification for excluding what should be common knowledge.
I handle the answers by refusing to give answers such as your own authority or credibility.
How selective of you. I guess we should just get rid of the Civil Rights curriculum in public schools all together and focus on such priorities, since you seem so fond of arbitrarily using such a standard to weigh the importance of some history over others.
Ridiculous. How does incorporating GLBT issues into history lessons take away from focus on the basics. This stance is absurd.
Then do away with history all together, but do not propose to exclude a legitimate minority from history discussions.
And, chances are, if you are a member of several minority groups that are relevant to US history, then they are already included in history lessons.
I never said it was - that is your interpretation and (bigoted) projection onto this topic. I am talking about incorporating GLBT history into the Civil Rights movement - BECAUSE IT IS A MAJOR PART OF IT. If you can show me how your particular minority groups that you are a part of are relevant to US history and play a defining role, I'll be happy to hear it.
These are parental responsibilities, not a teacher's or public school's responsibilities, and they are COMPLETELY irrelevant to the topic at hand. If anything, YOU and those like you are the ones advocating "special courses" such as "Life Skills" to be taught, which shouldn't even be the focus of public schools since those are inherently value-laden.
That is bs and, again, a false premise with which to interpret the concerns of this thread.
I LOVE the quotes on LGBT "history." Yep, shows me exactly the kind of person I'm dealing with (not that I wasn't aware of it, already).
And, there is no "rewriting" history. THIS HAS ALREADY HAPPENED AND IT IS NOT EMPHASIZED AND IN MANY CASES NOT INCLUDED IN HISTORY LESSONS PERTAINING TO CIVIL RIGHTS ISSUES IN AMERICA.
You suggested it for the same reason other people did - bigotry and prejudice. You don't want kids learning about certain minority groups who are extremely relevant and part of American history. You want kids to remain ignorant about things to suit your own preferences. Own up to your own issues and stop trying to evade what is clear from your opposition and feeble justifications for exclusion.
Irrelevant to the matter at hand.
And as you continue to offend in every way you can think of, the no votes continue upward. This thread should be closed.
I say leave this out of the education system. Let's focus on getting kids to handle what they have now.
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Originally Posted by EDnurse
First, you asked nicely about the reasons for voting no. Then, you get miffed when people tell you how they feel. Please, if you cannot handle the answers, then don't ask the question........
Then you both support removing Civil Rights History from American History in general, yes?
And as you continue to offend in every way you can think of, the no votes continue upward. This thread should be closed.
And, for the record, if all you can say is that what I said was "offensive," then that's not a counter to the points I made and is immaterial. Come up with better arguments in your defense and then maybe they won't be dismissed as the nonsense that they are.
And, for the record, if all you can say is that what I said was "offensive," then that's not a counter to the points I made and is immaterial. Come up with better arguments in your defense and then maybe they won't be dismissed as the nonsense that they are.
In my defense? Heh..heh..you're a little confused, I'm afraid. All I've done is held up a mirror so that you might take a look at yourself.
EDnurse took a lot more time than you deserve to put together a very thoughtful commentary and you pompously dismissed it as bs and bigotry. I doubt seriously that anyone else will pay you much attention.
The OP is dismissing even the idea that teaching children the basics will help them learn more about other subjects later on. Have you ever taught? How do you teach a child that can't read anything? Without reading, writing, and good math skills children are lost. These subjects ARE more important because without them kids will fail.
Also, I have never seen someone so judgemental. When you ask for opinions yet refuse to consider them, you are being unfair. If I don't want Italian taught in middle school, am I being bigoted. No, maybe I just don't think that is the right time. Give everybody the right to disagree. I will not read this thread anymore because what is the point? You are obviously the only person you will listen to.
In my defense? Heh..heh..you're a little confused, I'm afraid. All I've done is held up a mirror so that you might take a look at yourself.
"Your" meaning the collective opposition.
And, you haven't "done" anything but play the part of annoying insect. Don't give yourself that much credit.
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EDnurse took a lot more time than you deserve to put together a very thoughtful commentary and you pompously dismissed it as bs and bigotry. I doubt seriously that anyone else will pay you much attention.
And here you are.
As for EDnurse, I took a lot of time than he/she or anyone else deserves in responding and repeating myself over and over again throughout this thread. That's exactly why I'm done with it and don't care if it's closed. I've said what I had to say.
The OP is dismissing even the idea that teaching children the basics will help them learn more about other subjects later on. Have you ever taught? How do you teach a child that can't read anything? Without reading, writing, and good math skills children are lost. These subjects ARE more important because without them kids will fail.
No, I'm dismissing that as justification for excluding gay and lesbian history. Gay and lesbian history in discussions of Civil Rights DOES NOT IN ANY WAY TAKE AWAY FROM THE BASICS OR AFFECT THEM. PERIOD.
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Also, I have never seen someone so judgemental. When you ask for opinions yet refuse to consider them, you are being unfair. If I don't want Italian taught in middle school, am I being bigoted. No, maybe just don't think that is the right time. Give everybody the right to disagree. I will not read this thread anymore because what is the point? You are obviously the only person you will listen to.
If so, at what age/grade would it be "appropriate" to introduce said history into the curriculum?
For those of you who are voting no, could you give some reasons for your objection?
I don't see any reason that homosexuality, nudism, new age, or any other kind of lifestyle is anything to be shunned, and certainly not anything to be hidden from kids.
I honestly believe that schools should be private and tuition funded--not tax funded--and that parents should be allowed to send their kids to whatever school they want. Were I running a private or public school, I would leave all of the social and religious stuff for the parents to deal with.
GLBT history is American history. Women, blacks, indians, etc, should not be taken out of American history and dealt with separately because of issues surrounding their birth that they had no control over.
BTW, if you're saying, "Oh no! How would the poor learn without 14,000 hours of mass compulsory schooling?!" then you are retarded and should just step out of the conversation.
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All I've done is held up a mirror so that you might take a look at yourself. 