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WHICH Native Americans? The ones who were there when the White Man decided to take the land? Or the Native Americans that had recently been run off that same land?
And by the way, I'm not naive at all. I'm simply blowing holes in your terrorist-supporting ideology. Why do you keep going back to 1948 - other than the fact that that date suits YOU? Why not go back farther than that?
The fact is, you are pointing to a point in history YOU like. Too bad that's a totally fallacious and inane practice.
Oh yes, no point, so I've got a terrorist-supporting ideology. I get it.
You are probably ignorant of the fact that Israel was created in 1948.
Better do some research before you look, well, ignorant of the facts.
Oh yes, no point, so I've got a terrorist-supporting ideology. I get it.
You are probably ignorant of the fact that Israel was created in 1948.
Better do some research before you look, well, ignorant of the facts.
Israel was NOT created in 1948 (you even have that date wrong, actually).
The nation of Israel has existed for thousands of years. Alas, you miss the OBVIOUS point. Your hateful political ideology simply won't allow you to see that.
So again, WHOSE LAND IS IT? Those who have lived there for 60 years? Those who were living there 60 years ago? Those who were living there 600 years ago?
Bin Laden picked Saudis to carry out the 9/11 attacks because he thought the US reaction would be to blame the Saudi Arabian government, much as you have done, and cause the US to invade Saudi Arabia, also known as the land of the two holy places, Mecca and Medina, thereby touching a global war between the US and Islam. Now, if you thought Iraq was a difficult war, I can assure you that a war against the dozens of countries (and 1 billion people) that comprise Islam would have been a much more difficult endeavor. There are plenty of Muslims who dislike America. It was bin Laden who channeled that dislike, shaped it into a burning hatred, organized the financing and provided both the training and weaponry to carry out the series of jihadist attacks that started with the 1993 World Trade Center bombing.
And the 1993 bomber is in jail after undergoing due process through the court system.
There are plenty of Americans who dislike, nay hate, Islam.
It's a frenzy now.
Just read any of the dozens of threads on CD.
And the 1993 bomber is in jail after undergoing due process through the court system.
There are plenty of Americans who dislike, nay hate, Islam.
It's a frenzy now.
Just read any of the dozens of threads on CD.
So let them.
Or better yet, prove them wrong by all the good deeds done in the name of Allah. Isn't that the way it's supposed to work? You don't win friends and influence people by beheading reporters on TV.
For the ones that are pro-war with Iran, I'm assuming that your the realistic type. The ones that don't believe a war with Iran is necessary, you appear to be the optimistic bunch. I'm not trying to put your beliefs down but when it happens are you going to support your own country or say F*** the U.S. were a bunch of idiots and move to Canada? You cant ignore the inevitable. As far as posing sanctions, "The economic hardship will fall mostly on the poor and middle class, but it won’t do much to hurt the intended targets. As a recent Brookings report notes, sanctions mean that more people will turn to smugglers for their daily supplies and occasional luxuries. And since the Guards (Iranian Revolutionary Guard) control the black markets, their power will only grow." The way things seem is that when we do pose sanctions, it'll make the Iranian government stronger to a certain extent. Then you add in propaganda and bang, the Iranian people who are uneducated and ill informed who will believe anything they hear. That's one of the main problems with Iraq and Afghanistan is that uneducated people are lead the wrong way by "tyrants", "terrorists" or what ever you like to call the bad guy. Whatever Hitler did back in WWII to gain such support was smart cause the Germans I wouldnt categorize as being uneducated. I by no means, support what he did but if he didn't have such F***ed views, he could have easily been one of the greatest world leaders of all time. To the genius who said that if we do go to war with Iran, they'll have millions of people who would die for their country. Armed civilians w.barely any training vs U.S. Army let alone the Marine Corps? Thats if there is any major ground fighting to begin with if we leave out the fact we'd probably bomb them to hell from the air. . . Irans problem is that apparently they dont know how to co-exist with the rest of the world, their lucky they got the oil to back themselves up or else they would be no where near where they are now. Point is there's no reason to argue something that will inevitably happen. We can argue ways to prevent it but I would be more concerned about arguing what to do when the day comes.
For the ones that are pro-war with Iran, I'm assuming that your the realistic type. The ones that don't believe a war with Iran is necessary, you appear to be the optimistic bunch. I'm not trying to put your beliefs down but when it happens are you going to support your own country or say F*** the U.S. were a bunch of idiots and move to Canada? You cant ignore the inevitable. As far as posing sanctions, "The economic hardship will fall mostly on the poor and middle class, but it won’t do much to hurt the intended targets. As a recent Brookings report notes, sanctions mean that more people will turn to smugglers for their daily supplies and occasional luxuries. And since the Guards (Iranian Revolutionary Guard) control the black markets, their power will only grow." The way things seem is that when we do pose sanctions, it'll make the Iranian government stronger to a certain extent. Then you add in propaganda and bang, the Iranian people who are uneducated and ill informed who will believe anything they hear. That's one of the main problems with Iraq and Afghanistan is that uneducated people are lead the wrong way by "tyrants", "terrorists" or what ever you like to call the bad guy. Whatever Hitler did back in WWII to gain such support was smart cause the Germans I wouldnt categorize as being uneducated. I by no means, support what he did but if he didn't have such F***ed views, he could have easily been one of the greatest world leaders of all time. To the genius who said that if we do go to war with Iran, they'll have millions of people who would die for their country. Armed civilians w.barely any training vs U.S. Army let alone the Marine Corps? Thats if there is any major ground fighting to begin with if we leave out the fact we'd probably bomb them to hell from the air. . . Irans problem is that apparently they dont know how to co-exist with the rest of the world, their lucky they got the oil to back themselves up or else they would be no where near where they are now. Point is there's no reason to argue something that will inevitably happen. We can argue ways to prevent it but I would be more concerned about arguing what to do when the day comes.
scare tactics are always used to goad countries into wars, including the united states, just as scare tactics are used to bail out big businesses. if you think sanctions make a terrorist stronger, than imagine what a war would do.....
let me just say that germany did not fare well under hitler so there is NO CHANCE that he was or could have been a great leader, and leave it at that.
i think zhang's assessment hit the nail on the head.
it would certainly not be pretty if our newly renewed continued military assaults serve to foment this anger that some muslims have felt towards the united states, and there is no chance that this would be a "we will go in and wipe them out kind of battle". the middle east has its own internecine problems and they can find their own solutions. after that girl got shot in iran, the people were starting their movement on their own. any revolution has to come from WITHIN and IT ISN'T OUR PROBLEM.
the financial strength of a country is what ensures its freedom and wars deplete our financial strength.
Iran has had sanctions repeatedly. One more round of sanctions is not going to do any good. In fact, they have been facing them so long it won't phase them. And, I don't think that it is going to garnish the rest of the worlds support. If it does, it will be seemingly so. I say this because Iran does in fact have a relationship with Russia and one with China. Further, it has developed relationships with other countries. Ahmadinejad has demonstrated a real stubborn streak that says that he would rather work with up and coming 3rd world nations than with the US.
And, I am not going to go back but, to the poster that mentioned Osirak. That was a brilliant move. They then went and killed the French scientist. I wouldn't put it past them do that again.
Further, Iran has always held the position that they do not want to go to war with the US. What they were afraid of, and rightly so I might add, is that US interests include Iran. If we go to war against Iran, it will be because of those interests. There is not one other ligitimate reason for it. In doing so, we will have to contend with Russia and China.
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
68,329 posts, read 54,373,658 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zhang Fei
There's really no need for a war. The Israelis destroyed Iraq's Osirak nuclear facility without invading. The reason for the US invasion of Iraq was to demonstrate to Middle Eastern countries that they can't play the game of financing terrorists to attack the US at home while pretending that they had nothing to do with it.
If that was the case we should have invaded/occupied Saudi Arabia.
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