Public Transit Confusion (Portland, Phoenix: daycare, house, transfer to)

[kpris]

I have been researching places for a bit and have come to the conclusion that due to the raves on public transportation, Portland is the winning location for my relocation. I read up on this board frequently and see such a mixture of reviews on the transit system there in Portland. Some posters say how great it is and others, say it is not good at all.

How easy is it to get around there? (Keep in mind I do realize that public transit is difficult anywhere in comparison to using your own vehicle.)

Thanks in advance.

[Rob Allen]

How easy it is depends on where you're going and when. If you want to go downtown, it's really good. If you want to live without a car, it can be a hassle sometimes.

[Minervah]

With apologies to everyone who has read my opinions of Portland's public transprotation system for the umpteenth time, this is my take on it.

I am car-less and have always been. With the addition of light rail lines, bus service has been continually cut back over the 30 plus years I have lived in Portland. Even the few major ones. It is difficult to get from neighborhood to neighborhood. For the most part, you have to travel downtown and then catch a bus to go out again.

As an example, I live 4.8 miles from a local hospital. It takes three buses to get there. Two going away from downtown and one on a cross town bus. Or I can take one bus to downtown and then another out to the hospital. I will be switchbacking parelling the bus route I first took to get to downtown.

Times are 15 minutes apart for what is known as "frequent service." Most buses don't run on this schedule though. Buses on the SW side outside of downtown do not run often. Not too many meet up with MAX at MAX stations.

Most of the best buslines are in the more expensive neighborhoods unless you happen to live along the routes as they go out of the city.

Okay, that is the bad news. The good news is if you live walking distance from one of the larger bus routes and commute to downtown, you will be fine. If you live walking distance from a MAX train it will take you between downtown and some suburbs.

If you live downtown, the city is your oyster. Just about all bus and all MAX routes end downtown. Oh, and there is a streetcar that travels through downtown. More are being built across the river (I think) and new MAX lines are being put in.

So, here's the deal. If you just want to commute to downtown, put yourself where you can reach a bus or MAX. If you want to depend upon Portland transportation and go carless choose your neighborhood carefully and check out what bus or MAX serves it.

Remember, the best advice will be from those who actually use the system to go everywhere as opposed to those quoting from articles written by people who don't use it or by people who don't use it but observe buses going past them causing them to assume that the public transportation is the best.

About 5-10 years ago I wouldn't have had to give you this last piece of advice because it wasn't necessary but today it is. Make friends with a nice person willing to drive you when you need to go somewhere public transportation doesn't. Offer to pay for their gas or to buy them lunch. I never used to have to do that but I do now. Either that or take a cab.

Public transportation in Portland is more and more being geared to the commuter rather than the people who need it to travel to places they were once able to get to by bus. So good or bad basically depends upon your needs.

I am not saying it is not good but it isn't great because it no longer serves as many people as it used to. That is the main reason it has lost points for me. I hope you will be able to come out here and spend some time checking things out for yourself.

[backdrifter]

I agree 100% with Minervah. +1

Let's say I live in Southeast one block off of Powell Blvd on Cesar Chavez Blvd. Let's say I have a doctor's appointment at Providence Portland in Northeast on Glisan St around 49th Ave at 10:00 AM on a weekday. Instead of defaulting to a maximum 1 mile walk like TriMet's trip planner assumes, let's say I can't walk that far. Let's say 1/2 mile is as far as I can go. Not unreasonable at all.

Okay, so how am I going to get there? I have a "frequent" service route nearby, the 75 which runs up Cesar Chavez Blvd. So I can catch that bus at 9:11 AM (the next one comes at 9:29 and I might be late to my appointment) and it will take me to the intersection of Chavez and Glisan and drop me off at 9:22 AM. Then I have to wait 17 minutes for the connecting bus, the 19, to get there. From there it's only 3 minutes on the 19 and if I were healthy I could have walked there in that time frame. But I'm sick and I am going to a doctor's appointment and I can't walk that far and I'm probably waiting out in the cold and the rain for a transfer to the next 3 minute bus ride... If I have the luxury of having a car I can get from A to B in 7 minutes total. Or if I am fit to ride a bike I can leisurely ride that distance in 20 minutes.

That's just one very specific example, but see what we mean? So yeah, it's not reasonable to be running empty buses around the city on every major street all day, every day, but it also doesn't really seem reasonable to have to wait 20 minutes or more to connect with a bus on a major street during the daytime. You know? And I'm sure more people who can "choose" to use the bus would choose to do so if it were more frequent and convenient and then it becomes more self-sustaining at some point.

In Seattle I'm seriously considering ditching my car because they seem to appropriately fund and schedule their public transit and, while far from perfect, it works way better in the city proper than TriMet does for Portland proper. That's something I wouldn't consider doing in Portland. Even though I'd probably choose to bike in Portland if I went back, I'd still dread those winter months of riding or waiting, waiting, waiting for Godot. Er, I mean... the bus.

[figmalt]

Originally Posted by backdrifter

I agree 100% with Minervah. +1
In Seattle I'm seriously considering ditching my car because they seem to appropriately fund and schedule their public transit and, while far from perfect, it works way better in the city proper than TriMet does for Portland proper. That's something I wouldn't consider doing in Portland. Even though I'd probably choose to bike in Portland if I went back, I'd still dread those winter months of riding or waiting, waiting, waiting for Godot. Er, I mean... the bus.

Totally agree with Minervah and Backdrifter. It took me up to 90 minutes each way to commute from the suburbs (taking MAX and bus), not a great use of my time, for the most part.

I've been way more impressed with Seattle's public transportation, than with Portland's. I can't tell if it's because I've just lived near major lines, or what, but there seem to be more stops, more express buses, and more routes.

[davemess10]

Originally Posted by Minervah

As an example, I live 4.8 miles from a local hospital. It takes three buses to get there. Two going away from downtown and one on a cross town bus. Or I can take one bus to downtown and then another out to the hospital. I will be switchbacking parelling the bus route I first took to get to downtown.

Not to be nit-picky, but isn't Providence only a couple miles from your area? Granted that doesn't help make the bus ride that much faster as Backdrifter so eloquently pointed out.

The real question: is the transit worth moving to Portland for? I think most would say no.
I think most of the people who rave about the transit on this site are visitors, who mainly stay downtown, have no real time constraints, and are here for less than a week. Most people who actually live here are usually not as jazzed.

[christiner81]

i'm pleased with the public transportation situation BUT i researched it a bunch and picked a house in a neighborhood that would meet my needs. I do have a car - wouldn't be able to go 100% carless for my situation. The transportation is not very flexible (express bus to OHSU) but as long as my schedule aligns with the bus schedules, it works great. for the days i need to come and go earlier/later, i do have my car as a backup.

For me, dealing with transfers wasn't an option, so that really limited where we were going to live. I knew i'd be going to OHSU (and splitting another SW commute with my husband) so I had those express line maps in my head when i was looking for a place to live. We're close to a park and ride, which is near where my kids go to daycare, so that helps keep the commute times down.

the most interesting thing for me, coming from a big metro area like Phoenix, is that it takes FOREVER to drive anywhere here. The speed limits are slower, the drivers are slower/more polite, and there is just less asphalt/lanes to carry the load of people. I could drive 25 miles in arizona in the time it takes me to drive 5 here. Everything is relatively close here but I still have to re-calculate travel times in my head because it takes longer to get around than what i'm used to.

[davemess10]

Originally Posted by christiner81

the most interesting thing for me, coming from a big metro area like Phoenix, is that it takes FOREVER to drive anywhere here. The speed limits are slower, the drivers are slower/more polite, and there is just less asphalt/lanes to carry the load of people. I could drive 25 miles in arizona in the time it takes me to drive 5 here. Everything is relatively close here but I still have to re-calculate travel times in my head because it takes longer to get around than what i'm used to.

Difference though in that most things here are pretty close, compared to the sprawl of Phoenix. Why would you ever have to drive 25 miles here? That would pretty much be the entire width of the metro area.

I think the new MAX line will open up a whole new world of possibilities for housing for those who work at OHSU. Hopefully I'll be done by then, so it won't affect me much though.

[kpris]

Thanks, that is very helpful Minervah. I have lived places before where the majority of the buses, (after walking 3-4 miles in 100 degree heat to get to the nearest bus stop), run on the hour and are very rarely reliable to even hit that time block. I very often would have to call a cab from the bus stop to make it on time.

[kpris]

To Backdrafter:

So on a whole you are recommending Seattle to be the better choice when it comes to using Public Transportation. I had originally considered Seattle but the people and atomosphere of Portland sounded so much more my speed. I also have seen through my research that Seattle seems to rain more often.