Meet the new gridlock, worse than the old gridlock. (Portland: live, buses)

[urbanlife78]

Originally Posted by Metlakatla

I guess it's pretty easy to sit online and make comments like this about a situation you know little about.

I give up, I have no idea where you are talking about or what the conditions are, which is sort of an off topic thing. All I can do is go off what you post, if you say it isn't a "pressing issue" then I can only assume that it isn't a pressing issue. With that in mind, lets move on from this off topic discussion because it is clearly going no where. It is bad that people from out of town bike on this random road that you have once driven on.

Most communities in rural Oregon are going without a lot of things these days; it's understandable that bike lanes for visitors aren't a priority in any of them. There are places where you can't get any help from 911 during certain hours, of course they aren't tripping over themselves to add bike lanes for tourists.

If they incident you described with the vehicles you saw today was as bad as you claim, it's likely that someone wrote their plate numbers down. I've done that myself, so really don't see it as the stretch that you do. Again, my point was that with vehicles, there's a way for LE to identify them. It's also probable that the "hood rats" make a practice of driving this way -- if they weren't caught this time, there's always tomorrow. Bad drivers have a much greater chance of losing their privileges than bad bike riders.

The reason bike licenses don't make enough money to fund anything is because they aren't mandatory. Of course they don't bring in revenue -- hardly anyone has them. I'm sure that if everyone who rides a bike had to contribute the same way that those who drive cars do, it would make a difference.

Again I doubt anyone wrote down any license plate numbers while driving at night. Maybe someone did, maybe someone didn't, not really important. I am sure they will eventually receive tickets for their reckless driving, much like I am sure people on bikes receive tickets for their reckless riding because I have seen people getting citations on bikes before.

Even if a bike license was mandatory, which would be near impossible to enforce or control, especially when one could own several bikes yet only ride one or two on the roads. It still wouldn't cover the cost of the plates and the cost to enforce license plates on bikes. It is much easier to include a voluntary tax to the State taxes, something we both should be able to agree on as something that makes sense.

I am not sure if you realize how little it costs for bicycle infrastructure or how long it lasts because bikes don't tear down road as fast as cars do. Also, I have a feeling you don't realize how many people bike voluntarily that also own vehicles which means they too are paying their fair share in taxes because that vehicle has taxes. It sounds like you have misconceptions that people on bikes somehow aren't paying any taxes that contribute to bicycle infrastructure, which would be incorrect.

Of course, as I've said before, the bike community throws a massive hissy fit whenever this is proposed.

Well if you were told that they wanted to tax you per mile with your vehicle, I am sure drivers would throw a "hissy fit" as well over the proposal. Why? Because people who ride bikes also pay taxes and often times own vehicles that are taxed.

[Metlakatla]

Originally Posted by urbanlife78

I give up, I have no idea where you are talking about or what the conditions are, which is sort of an off topic thing. All I can do is go off what you post, if you say it isn't a "pressing issue" then I can only assume that it isn't a pressing issue. With that in mind, lets move on from this off topic discussion because it is clearly going no where. It is bad that people from out of town bike on this random road that you have once driven on.

Actually, let's get it straight. As I've explained to you several times, I used to live on that road, so I'm not sure where you're getting that I drove on it once. I guess that's all you've got, though.

[urbanlife78]

Originally Posted by Metlakatla

Actually, let's get it straight. As I've explained to you several times, I used to live on that road, so I'm not sure where you're getting that I drove on it once.

Once, as in use to drive on that road....again, I have zero idea what road you are talking about, which isn't important because it is completely off topic. Regardless, I am sure the road is dangerous and no one should be biking on it because it is too unsafe to use. Lets please move on from a road you once lived on that has nothing to do with gridlock in the Portland metro.

[Metlakatla]

Well if you were told that they wanted to tax you per mile with your vehicle, I am sure drivers would throw a "hissy fit" as well over the proposal. Why? Because people who ride bikes also pay taxes and often times own vehicles that are taxed.

As I've already explained to you, those who ride motorcycles have to have a separate license and (usually) don't cry about that. It's my opinion that bike riders should also have to pass a test and obtain a separate license.

The fact that bicycle riders also own cars is beside the point.

[Metlakatla]

Originally Posted by urbanlife78

Once, as in use to drive on that road....again, I have zero idea what road you are talking about, which isn't important because it is completely off topic. Regardless, I am sure the road is dangerous and no one should be biking on it because it is too unsafe to use. Lets please move on from a road you once lived on that has nothing to do with gridlock in the Portland metro.

Actually, it isn't "off topic" because it speaks to the sense of entitlement that many of those "on bikes" seem to share.

Anyway, it's silly to assume, as you've done, that a significant number of those stuck in rush hour traffic could be "on bikes" instead. Portland's traffic problems aren't going to be fixed by bikes. The city needs real solutions, not finger wagging about bikes and buses.

[urbanlife78]

Originally Posted by Metlakatla

Actually, it isn't "off topic" because it speaks to the sense of entitlement that many of those "on bikes" seem to share.

So you would rather they all be in their cars adding to the gridlock that people experience during rush hour? That makes no sense.

And how exactly is someone "entitled" when they commute by bike? Is it because they somehow get in the way of people driving vehicles? Sounds like people in vehicles are the ones who seem to think they are entitled if that is how a driver feels.

Since when did commuting by bike become an entitlement and why is it only people who drive cars the ones throwing it around saying anyone not in a car is somehow entitled?

[urbanlife78]

Originally Posted by Metlakatla

Anyway, it's silly to assume, as you've done, that a significant number of those stuck in rush hour traffic could be "on bikes" instead. Portland's traffic problems aren't going to be fixed by bikes.

I don't assume anything, I am sure every single person driving a car is driving because they think they need to be driving. All I can do is speak from personal experience, I can give you a million excuses on why I should be driving too when I commute, but I don't because I choose to bike because I like that I feel healthy and I don't have to deal with traffic. If more people did that, there would be less cars on the road, but don't take that as an assumption, it is just a fact.

[Metlakatla]

Originally Posted by urbanlife78

So you would rather they all be in their cars adding to the gridlock that people experience during rush hour? That makes no sense.

This makes no sense. What I would "rather" people be doing during rush hour isn't the point. As has been pointed out to you, bikes and buses generally aren't feasible alternatives for parents and others who have to juggle responsibilities. It isn't that I would "rather" that people do anything but that I understand why bikes and buses aren't reasonable alternatives for a substantial number of people.

[Metlakatla]

Originally Posted by urbanlife78

I don't assume anything, I am sure every single person driving a car is driving because they think they need to be driving. All I can do is speak from personal experience, I can give you a million excuses on why I should be driving too when I commute, but I don't because I choose to bike because I like that I feel healthy and I don't have to deal with traffic. If more people did that, there would be less cars on the road, but don't take that as an assumption, it is just a fact.

This is it right here. Plenty of people who have participated in this discussion have legit reasons for driving, yet you slyly infer in a backhanded way that those reasons are "excuses."

Riding a bike in urban traffic isn't all that healthy, either. Those exhaust fumes you're breathing are pretty bad for you. What you're doing might be beneficial for short term muscle tone and helping to maintain a proportional body weight, but you're probably killing your lungs with all that black carbon you're sucking up. Don't kid yourself that your chosen commute is inherently healthy. It isn't.

If you're riding your bike during rush hour in Portland or any other city with substantial traffic, you're putting your respiratory health at risk. You'd be better off walking to mass transit than biking; you don't breathe as deeply when walking.

If this doesn't "make sense" to you, I suggest that you consult your health care professional.

[colganc]

Originally Posted by urbanlife78

I don't assume anything, I am sure every single person driving a car is driving because they think they need to be driving. All I can do is speak from personal experience, I can give you a million excuses on why I should be driving too when I commute, but I don't because I choose to bike because I like that I feel healthy and I don't have to deal with traffic. If more people did that, there would be less cars on the road, but don't take that as an assumption, it is just a fact.

Cars are necessities for economic growth of a city of Portland's composition. Not all cities can have commerce and industry that allows for bikes. Specialization does occur. Grid lock is usually a symptom of economic growth. As long as congestion is not so bad that it restricts economic growth in major ways it is not am issue. Guess what, it is getting bad enough to cause issues. More roads are needed.

We live in a system of resource limits. Allocating more resources like dedicated bike lanes, buses, light rail, even bike oriented transit will decrease resources available for roads. People only accept so much taxation and at points taxation will also limit economic growth. If we do not allocate transportation money appropriately the city will stop growing. Its already hurting job growth and opportunity.