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Ironic thing is and this is outstanding…..someone was trying to break into a home in Portland and the owner was clearly a millennial who voted Democrat and supported to defund the police, BLM blah blah blah. They threatened……threatened to call the police if they didn’t leave. Oh the hypocrisy is killing me.
I just heard about that shooting. It was by the Food Carts around 2am. Sadly the woman was killed, thankfully there wasn't more deaths. Some serious reinvention of Portland had better take place, or Portland isn't going to survive. It's problems are so serious and out of control, how does the city expect to continue on its path of destruction.
I have been thinking a lot about your comment and what is happening in Portland. I believe Democratic leadership in Portland would like city to crumble. They will then argue that only through strong "proactive government" can we fix it. Of course, the argument ignores fact that for most part, city gov't created problems.
I believe Portland population is now is so far left that it will not/cannot see damage done by the Progressive mentality and instead it will double down on more of the same. Increase taxes to form new gov't committees, create more regulations and rules to "fix" problems. Further drive productive people out and encourage scum and slackers to come in.
I could be wrong (hope so) but this is what I see and hear.
To people who come to City Data to find out about possible places to live. Think long and hard about why you would move to Portland OR. If you do want to live in this area. I urge you to stay out of Portland and preferably not even move to Multnomah County.
Those places are just nuts and no sign it's gonna get better. .
I just heard about that shooting. It was by the Food Carts around 2am. Sadly the woman was killed, thankfully there wasn't more deaths. Some serious reinvention of Portland had better take place, or Portland isn't going to survive. It's problems are so serious and out of control, how does the city expect to continue on its path of destruction.
From my perspective Portland was doing decently until the pandemic and the Floyd reactions. Pre-pandemic it was regularly listed as one of the best cities to live on a variety of lists; an attractive destination for a variety of reasons.
Then everything shut down and it all went to crap. Having spent more time in Portland these last few weeks, I am MORE convinced than I was that covid is the problem behind all of this. The degradation is mostly in abandoned spaces. E.g. there are buildings completely grafittied up while next door where business still operates, it is completely clean.
The homeless situation has been out of control since at least 2015. The protest/riots started election night 2016.
You can’t blame an inanimate object for something. COVID isn’t the problem behind all this, the government response is the problem behind all this. It took the stench of Portland (and much of the rest of Oregon’s I-5 corridor) and made it putrid.
Remember, “the virus” didn’t come along and say “everyone stay home, such-and-such businesses and events are closed/shut down” — Kate Brown did. And the Democrat led legislature didn’t do a thing to stop her.
The homeless situation has been out of control since at least 2015. The protest/riots started election night 2016.
You can’t blame an inanimate object for something. COVID isn’t the problem behind all this, the government response is the problem behind all this. It took the stench of Portland (and much of the rest of Oregon’s I-5 corridor) and made it putrid.
Remember, “the virus” didn’t come along and say “everyone stay home, such-and-such businesses and events are closed/shut down” — Kate Brown did. And the Democrat led legislature didn’t do a thing to stop her.
Gee, thanks for that rundown on Oregon and the state of our current social ills. Always good to know that we have folks who have ALL the answers while the rest of us labor over the finer points..
Gee, thanks for that rundown on Oregon and the state of our current social ills. Always good to know that we have folks who have ALL the answers while the rest of us labor over the finer points..
I’m delighted that not only did I make your day, but I also helped raise your overall knowledge level higher.
The homeless situation has been out of control since at least 2015. The protest/riots started election night 2016.
You can’t blame an inanimate object for something. COVID isn’t the problem behind all this, the government response is the problem behind all this. It took the stench of Portland (and much of the rest of Oregon’s I-5 corridor) and made it putrid.
Remember, “the virus” didn’t come along and say “everyone stay home, such-and-such businesses and events are closed/shut down” — Kate Brown did. And the Democrat led legislature didn’t do a thing to stop her.
Just need to look around at the proliferation of t-shirts and wall murals of Che Guevara to get an idea of the direction a city is heading
Well, the candidate once polling double digits ahead of Wheeler was sporting clothing with images of Che and the gang (Stalin, Mao, etc). The answer to Portland's problems is a racist, murderous dictator?
I really don't understand the Portlanders. They blame the police, decrease their budget and castrate them by demonstrating they don't support them. Predictably crime goes up.
Now I read articles from Portland publications and watch their politics with interest and, almost without exception, every article is STILL blames the police. They re-elected the Mayor who stood in unity with antifa because he was the most moderate of the choices.
Without getting personal or descending into name calling, can someone from inside the Portland bubble please help me to understand this? You can DM me if you think it would help us avoid posturing. Is there anyone of the 2 million people in the greater Portland area that can effectively articulate this anti police hysteria?
I have my theories that are more nuanced than "liberals bad," which is what most people on here will say.
I could maybe comment more on the "anti-police" stuff if you post one of the articles that "blames the police." I'm not sure what line of argument you're referring to.
I can comment on this
Quote:
"They re-elected the Mayor who stood in unity with antifa because he was the most moderate of the choices."
First, it is incorrect to equate Antifa with BLM with the summer 2020 protests. Antifa =/= Black Lives Matter, which does not = the larger initial protests. They don't even have similar goals. As the movement activity got smaller and the population of protestors & rioters distilled down, what were left were the harder core and that included Antifa. By Fall of 2020, Antifa was threatening BLM.
Second, Ted Wheeler was elected in 2016 on a pro-business platform, and indeed he is a scion of the business community. His votes came from the higher end neighborhoods in the city. His family goes back 5 generations in the former timber royalty of Oregon. He isn't even very liberal; in fact if he could register as a Republican and win in Portland, I think he would have. But he can't, so he didn't.
I think he, and indeed many of the city's politicians, mis-interpreted what was going on in the protests. They mis-intepreted what Antifa was. Antifa hates people like Wheeler worse than they hate Republicans. He failed to read the situation correctly.
His main opponent in 2020, Sarah Ianarrone, actually moderated herself somewhat after the crisis began because there was a possibility she might actually win. Before that she was more of a protest candidate with a lot of pie in the sky ideas who didn't expect to win. In the end Wheeler won because Iannarone could explain what exactly she would do in practical terms to make things better, and because she has no political experience.
Wheeler is not what the right thinks he is. He is to Democrats in Oregon kind of what Mitt Romney is to Republicans. The archetypal image of a successful politician in Oregon is actually not a deep blue liberal like Alexandria Ocasio Cortez or something - it's a moderate liberal or even mildly conservative Democrat like what John Kitzhaber was. This is partly why Kate Brown's approval rate is so low; she was more of a career bureaucrat who lucked in to becoming governor when Kitzhaber had to resign, (which now seems ridiculous why he did). People forget that this state is not Massachusetts. It's not even California. It's still heavily small town and rural, with agriculture interests still quite powerful. It's the least liberal of the west coast states and there's a reason for that. The growth of the tech industry in the Portland suburbs is the main thing that has made it more blue since the 1990s.
Wheeler always had an eye to running for governor (he still might), and I think he thought he could make a statement against Trump, use the protests in 2020 to his advantage and become kind of a hero out of the whole thing that would springboard his gubernatorial campaign in 2022. But he mis-read that map.
For what it's worth, I get the sense Wheeler actually does see the problems with the city, has some decent ideas of how to fix them, and I think has seen the error of his interpretation in summer 2020. He is actually much better than the prior 2 mayors of Portland, who were pretty incompetent. Wheeler's problem is that he alone can't fix it. The mayor is only one vote on the city council. It doesn't really matter what the mayor says or does. The way Portland and the area governance works is both too much and too little democracy - a lot of little fiefdoms with their own interests and they haven't gotten along for decades. They all double down on NIMBY-ism and "My money not yours"-ism which is a reason they can't deal with the homeless problem. The counties have their own interests. Then there is the police bureau, a kind of fiefdom in itself that the mayor is not the boss of... all of that is part of the problem.
There is no one person in control that can impose reform. A very clever and charismatic personality might be able to broker consensus and reform but it's going to be hard to find that person.
Also, there IS a racism problem here. Portland may be blue but Oregon in general, to include Portland, was once a hotbed of white supremacy and it was not that long ago. The KKK etc.. had strength here for a LONG time. There is a reason not many black people moved to Oregon and more moved to Washington and California. The lingering effect of that is, despite the state being blue, certain sub-sets of our conservatives are MORE conservative and more aggressive than what you'll find in other states, especially on issues like race. The Proud Boys and other overt white supremist groups are better represented per capita in Oregon than in other places. Some of these people indeed work in law enforcement. Not many but some. It's one of the reasons Antifa shifted its activity here. They see this as a front line in their "war" against "fascists." If you recall from the 2011 Occupy Wall Street protests, Antifa's prior center of activity was Oakland, CA.
Last edited by redguard57; 07-24-2021 at 04:19 PM..
I have my theories that are more nuanced than "liberals bad," which is what most people on here will say.
I could maybe comment more on the "anti-police" stuff if you post one of the articles that "blames the police." I'm not sure what line of argument you're referring to.
I can comment on this
First, it is incorrect to equate Antifa with BLM with the summer 2020 protests. Antifa =/= Black Lives Matter, which does not = the larger initial protests. They don't even have similar goals. As the movement activity got smaller and the population of protestors & rioters distilled down, what were left were the harder core and that included Antifa. By Fall of 2020, Antifa was threatening BLM.
Second, Ted Wheeler was elected in 2016 on a pro-business platform, and indeed he is a scion of the business community. His votes came from the higher end neighborhoods in the city. His family goes back 5 generations in the former timber royalty of Oregon. He isn't even very liberal; in fact if he could register as a Republican and win in Portland, I think he would have. But he can't, so he didn't.
I think he, and indeed many of the city's politicians, mis-interpreted what was going on in the protests. They mis-intepreted what Antifa was. Antifa hates people like Wheeler worse than they hate Republicans. He failed to read the situation correctly.
His main opponent in 2020, Sarah Ianarrone, actually moderated herself somewhat after the crisis began because there was a possibility she might actually win. Before that she was more of a protest candidate with a lot of pie in the sky ideas who didn't expect to win. In the end Wheeler won because Iannarone could explain what exactly she would do in practical terms to make things better, and because she has no political experience.
Wheeler is not what the right thinks he is. He is to Democrats in Oregon kind of what Mitt Romney is to Republicans. The archetypal image of a successful politician in Oregon is actually not a deep blue liberal like Alexandria Ocasio Cortez or something - it's a moderate liberal or even mildly conservative Democrat like what John Kitzhaber was. This is partly why Kate Brown's approval rate is so low; she was more of a career bureaucrat who lucked in to becoming governor when Kitzhaber had to resign, (which now seems ridiculous why he did). People forget that this state is not Massachusetts. It's not even California. It's still heavily small town and rural, with agriculture interests still quite powerful. It's the least liberal of the west coast states and there's a reason for that. The growth of the tech industry in the Portland suburbs is the main thing that has made it more blue since the 1990s.
Wheeler always had an eye to running for governor (he still might), and I think he thought he could make a statement against Trump, use the protests in 2020 to his advantage and become kind of a hero out of the whole thing that would springboard his gubernatorial campaign in 2022. But he mis-read that map.
For what it's worth, I get the sense Wheeler actually does see the problems with the city, has some decent ideas of how to fix them, and I think has seen the error of his interpretation in summer 2020. He is actually much better than the prior 2 mayors of Portland, who were pretty incompetent. Wheeler's problem is that he alone can't fix it. The mayor is only one vote on the city council. It doesn't really matter what the mayor says or does. The way Portland and the area governance works is both too much and too little democracy - a lot of little fiefdoms with their own interests and they haven't gotten along for decades. They all double down on NIMBY-ism and "My money not yours"-ism which is a reason they can't deal with the homeless problem. The counties have their own interests. Then there is the police bureau, a kind of fiefdom in itself that the mayor is not the boss of... all of that is part of the problem.
There is no one person in control that can impose reform. A very clever and charismatic personality might be able to broker consensus and reform but it's going to be hard to find that person.
Also, there IS a racism problem here. Portland may be blue but Oregon in general, to include Portland, was once a hotbed of white supremacy and it was not that long ago. The KKK etc.. had strength here for a LONG time. There is a reason not many black people moved to Oregon and more moved to Washington and California. The lingering effect of that is, despite the state being blue, certain sub-sets of our conservatives are MORE conservative and more aggressive than what you'll find in other states, especially on issues like race. The Proud Boys and other overt white supremist groups are better represented per capita in Oregon than in other places. Some of these people indeed work in law enforcement. Not many but some. It's one of the reasons Antifa shifted its activity here. They see this as a front line in their "war" against "fascists." If you recall from the 2011 Occupy Wall Street protests, Antifa's prior center of activity was Oakland, CA.
I think that is an excellent analysis, especially of Ted Wheeler’s miscalculation regarding the protests. A lot of his inaction was due to trying to position himself as being a virtuous anti-Trump progressive. There was a period when the “protests” started evolving and morphing from being mostly BLM related to being more Antifa, more violent, and more destructive. He seemed to be caught off guard by that change. I think it was when Antifa vandalized the Multnomah Democratic Party headquarters that he realized they meant business.
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