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"What he did was three years ago, so why can't you just forget about it?"
"You wouldn't say anything if he wasn't black."
"Well, maybe other athletes get bad reputations but it's different because Vick is black."
"If he was white it would all be swept under the rug."
"Okay, so what if he did get right back into football and is making $5 million a year, can't he have a second chance?"
"So what if he went to prison, he's out now so just forget about it!"
"They were just dogs he killed and I don't care about dogs anyway."
"A dog bit me once."
"What about George Bush?"
"Think about all the people in Afghanistan."
"Michael Vick is a black guy and if you say mean things about him people might think mean things about me because I am a black guy, too."
"Look, I have arrived in the mainstream so I don't have to fret about people stereotyping me based on Michael Vick, but just don't say anything bad about him."
"Don't blame Vick because he is simply a product of his environment."
"I have heard of white guys being involved in dog fighting, too."
"We black folks see things differently so we have to defend Michael Vick no matter what he does."
LMAo .. These are things people are saying in his defense to all the puppy lovers who are down playing him in this forum.. This thread, started off on a, good note and, had people kept it in that, direction none of the comments that were made wouldn't have been made.. So its not us who are keeping up this incident that now, world history so its the puppy lovers who are moaning still over something that's over and, done with..
For your information everyone who wrote those comments aren't all black either.
You seem to have a lot vested in this conversation yourself, big guy. You seem to want to take lot of time to somehow prove your point-of-view on the opposite side of the Vick-debate if you're gonna pull out all these past lines.
Also, you can play the "straight-man" non-partisan/objective observer routine all you want...but your biases show themselves in the end. Feel free to cut loose and show us how you really feel.
Let it all out...no one's gonna care, not me ayways.
Exactly... I don't know what kinda point there trying to make but its obvious that when this thread is closed its all going to be forgotten. I believe there is more this lady wants to say but there beating around the bush. Secretly they hate vick too and can't stand the fact that people are coming in defense for him...
You seem to have a lot vested in this conversation yourself, big guy. You seem to want to take lot of time to somehow prove your point-of-view on the opposite side of the Vick-debate if you're gonna pull out all these past lines.
Also, you can play the "straight-man" non-partisan/objective observer routine all you want...but your biases show themselves in the end. Feel free to cut loose and show us how you really feel.
Let it all out...no one's gonna care, not me ayways.
Right on the money, Acid...right on. Outlined perfectly (see highlighted above).
You seem to have a lot vested in this conversation yourself, big guy. You seem to want to take lot of time to somehow prove your point-of-view on the opposite side of the Vick-debate if you're gonna pull out all these past lines.
So making note of what folks have actually been saying for the past week is unfairly "proving a point of view"? Seems more like a case of "Reality Bites" to me.
In any case, as I said earlier, Vick's not the one who's claiming victim-hood or fretting about what people say. Some of you guys should take a page from his book on that.
Oh please, dude. You've ridden that objective observer high horse long enough. If you don't like Vick, just say so.
No need to continue this roundabout stuff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57
So making note of what folks have actually been saying for the past week is unfairly "proving a point of view"? Seems more like a case of "Reality Bites" to me.
In any case, as I said earlier, Vick's not the one who's claiming victim-hood or fretting about what people say. Some of you guys should take a page from his book on that.
Oh please, dude. You've ridden that objective observer high horse long enough. If you don't like Vick, just say so.
No need to continue this roundabout stuff.
Heh! I know the truth stings and I've had it zap me plenty of times, too. But don't let yourself get too wrapped around the axle -- the Vick apologia is not only unnecessary but demeaning as well.
As for my personal opinions on Vick, I know you like for me to repeat things several times, so once more, just for you:
I was saddened when Vick got in trouble. It was cool when he came here, not only because he's an exciting athlete but because it's about time a black city like Atlanta finally got a black quarterback. Being QB is a little different from other positions because it symbolizes the brains and the leadership of the team.
And Vick had the world by the tail. I don't recall the details but supposedly he had a contract worth $125 million or something like that. My grandchildren idolized him and had Vick jerseys and Vick posters on their walls. Vick was in a position to have enormous influence on kids all over town. While we can't expect athletes to be perfect, like it or not they are role models, and we hope they can set good examples.
So we followed Vick on TV and in the sports pages. He never hit his peak in Atlanta but everyone I knew was optimistic that great things were coming. We certainly were.
I wasn't too crazy about that deal with Vick flipping off the fans, because I used to coach youth sports and one of my boys has been very active with that, too, and we are always trying to teach kids about good sportsmanship. Maybe that's all old-fashioned nonsense but I still consider it valuable. Nonetheless, it's pro sports so I just figured, "So be it."
The dogfighting allegations really surprised me. I freely admit I am a dog lover and I believe they are special, unique creatures. The loyalty and heart of a dog is one of God's great gifts to man. Dogs should not be killed or tortured for anyone's personal pleasure. In my opinion, Vick or anybody else who does this should be punished and 18 months is not excessive.
I didn't really care what happened on the financial side of it. As strongly as I detest what Vick and his cohorts did to those dogs, I am still a softie and I hate to see anyone go down in flames. Especially somebody like this who was sitting on top of the world. Those kinds of failures make me sad.
I'm glad Vick immediately got back into football when he came out of prison and I hope he has a great career. It will take a while longer, in my opinion, to make amends for his incredibly crappy behavior toward those dogs. From what little I've seen he seems to be sincere about turning that around and hopefully he will make something good of it.
Of course this is all peripheral to the point I raised about whining and justifying and apologizing for Vick and claiming he is some kind of victim. That's baloney. Vick hasn't asked for that and he doesn't need it. Vick is not a victim and it's absurd to act like he is.
And it's ridiculous for anybody on this board to act like you have to defend Michael Vick at all costs because you think his conduct might affect opinions of you. It doesn't....except to the extent that you bend over backwards justifying, defending and apologizing for it. Even Vick himself hasn't attempted to do that.
Riggghttt. Its why child molesters and rapists are always forgiven and welcomed back into their communties with open arms. The whites anyway. Course the black man criminal, who was no doubt wrongly convicted, is not welcomed because, you know, he's black. Surrrrrreeee.
Reminds me of the Eddie Murphy SNL skit where he went around disguised as a white man and discovered this secret world where whites got all kinds of free things and acted completely different when there werent any black people about. Course, it was meant as a satire, because the idea was absurd. But apparently some people still carry the race card around to be used for any and all occassions.
Do tell, if Vick was destined to be hated for his blackness, why did he receive such support from the white community before his conviction? Was it all a conspiracy, trying to make him feel comfortable and hoping that he would screw up? Some folks probably do believe something like that.
Im sure Tiger Woods is being mistreated too, huh? All because he is a black man. Nevermind he was the highest paid athelte in the world prior to his scandal. Its just whitey trying to take another successful black man down.
Gee, what if there were a successful black person that didnt screw up? You know like Colin Powell or Michael Jordan? Im sure its just a matter of time before whitey figures out a way to take them down too.
It all comes down to personal responsibility. All adults, and especially those with power and money, are responsible for their actions. Anyone who cant abide by that is living in the wrong country or outside the dominant cultural norms.
Society has no obligation to give anyone a second chance. It may choose to, it may choose not to. Depends on the individual and how they conduct themselves afterward. Seen Pete Rose doing endorsements recently? How is ole Pee Wee Herman doing? How long has his "second chance" taken? Or is it still a WIP?
No one has the right to demand that I or anyone has the right to DEMAND a second chance. If it comes, be thankful. If not, its on them because of what THEY did. Nothing to do with me.
You could've just said you didn't like him. I'm not gonna nail you to the cross for it. It ain't that serious.
But if overly wordy roundabout speeches work for you so be it, I guess.
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57
Heh! I know the truth stings and I've had it zap me plenty of times, too. But don't let yourself get too wrapped around the axle -- the Vick apologia is not only unnecessary but demeaning as well.
As for my personal opinions on Vick, I know you like for me to repeat things several times, so once more, just for you:
I was saddened when Vick got in trouble. It was cool when he came here, not only because he's an exciting athlete but because it's about time a black city like Atlanta finally got a black quarterback. Being QB is a little different from other positions because it symbolizes the brains and the leadership of the team.
And Vick had the world by the tail. I don't recall the details but supposedly he had a contract worth $125 million or something like that. My grandchildren idolized him and had Vick jerseys and Vick posters on their walls. Vick was in a position to have enormous influence on kids all over town. While we can't expect athletes to be perfect, like it or not they are role models, and we hope they can set good examples.
So we followed Vick on TV and in the sports pages. He never hit his peak in Atlanta but everyone I knew was optimistic that great things were coming. We certainly were.
I wasn't too crazy about that deal with Vick flipping off the fans, because I used to coach youth sports and one of my boys has been very active with that, too, and we are always trying to teach kids about good sportsmanship. Maybe that's all old-fashioned nonsense but I still consider it valuable. Nonetheless, it's pro sports so I just figured, "So be it."
The dogfighting allegations really surprised me. I freely admit I am a dog lover and I believe they are special, unique creatures. The loyalty and heart of a dog is one of God's great gifts to man. Dogs should not be killed or tortured for anyone's personal pleasure. In my opinion, Vick or anybody else who does this should be punished and 18 months is not excessive.
I didn't really care what happened on the financial side of it. As strongly as I detest what Vick and his cohorts did to those dogs, I am still a softie and I hate to see anyone go down in flames. Especially somebody like this who was sitting on top of the world. Those kinds of failures make me sad.
I'm glad Vick immediately got back into football when he came out of prison and I hope he has a great career. It will take a while longer, in my opinion, to make amends for his incredibly crappy behavior toward those dogs. From what little I've seen he seems to be sincere about turning that around and hopefully he will make something good of it.
Of course this is all peripheral to the point I raised about whining and justifying and apologizing for Vick and claiming he is some kind of victim. That's baloney. Vick hasn't asked for that and he doesn't need it. Vick is not a victim and it's absurd to act like he is.
And it's ridiculous for anybody on this board to act like you have to defend Michael Vick at all costs because you think his conduct might affect opinions of you. It doesn't....except to the extent that you bend over backwards justifying, defending and apologizing for it. Even Vick himself hasn't attempted to do that.
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