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No, that's not true any self-knowing, self-defining, self-empowered African will agree, the only differences we havens the nationalities of Europeans who colonized us. The Caribbean is mainly French, South America, mainly brazil is Portuguese, the Africans in American were colonized by the British (who have the nationality of American), and the homeland was colonized by almost every European country. These are our only differences, but the system of white supremacy exists in all of these colonies and they keep the oppressed oppressed.
Actually, the Caribbean is a mix, and French is a minority. Spanish, Kreyol and English and spoken more than the actual French language. There are a host of cultural differences though, although plenty similarities as well. IMO, education and exposure is key for all.
That's most definitely not the only differences but I won't even get into that. And no you other people in America besides the native have your history and culture and native tongues and cultural identity intact. African history is world history and it may sound like I'm putting my history on a pedestal but its true. Now here you are telling me there's no black people or white people, get out the rose colored glasses mind state, this isn't a "we are the world" song so spare the "we are one" bs. We aren't one and we aren't equal, so save that for someone else.
Because we (blacks) have been under the system of white supremacy and it instills self hatred at an early age. The quote which you used to counter ormy quote is much different, being that it is a policy used to keep a people under a more overt form of supremacy and relinquishing the power in a society based on elective politics based on no merit except that of overt form of white supremacy.
I'll leave this here to support my above statement:
The presentation has some beautiful music (Terrence Blanchard perhaps?). But the individual doing the talking is completely irrational and completely obsessed with the trivial fact of how people look. I would not waste any further time with this individual. He has nothing to offer but a racist and collectivist view of the world. May I suggest as an alternative that you concentrate on individualism, freedom, and the philosophy of Aristotle? May I suggest that you forget about your race, as it means absolutely nothing to who you are (and neither does mine). The color of your skin and my skin is as important as the color of a dog's hair or a fish's scales. You are worth nothing based on your color. Neither am I. Nothing. Worthless. Irrelevant. Unimportant. Useless. Without import. Without value. Without anything. The only things that matter are what you accomplish and how you live. You are what you do. And if all you do is complain about being a victim of racism, then what are you. A complainer. And what have you accomplished? Whining. And what value do you have? None. Your value comes from what you, as an individual, accomplish. Not what other people who have the same light reflection characteristics as you have accomplished. You cannot claim to be worth anything at all by observing that other humans who reflect light at a similar wavelength to you have been great in the present or past. And neither can I.
In fact even if you have amazing members in your immediate family, you are not amazing. They are. Unless you can show yourself evidence of why you personally are worth it based on what you have done, then your value remains at zero.
Are you getting it? Lose the group associations. They don't mean anything. Don't look for warmth in numbers. There is none. Don't look for reflected glory in the achievements of others. There is none. Look only at your own capabilities, and capitalize on them.
Only then will you have made your existence on this planet count for something. Listening to hysterical screeching rabel rousers won't help you. They thrive on their victims, their "followers". Don't be one. It's a dead end. You can probably feel that in your spirit, but don't want to admit it because going it alone may seem too damned hard. But there is no alternative. Not if you want to matter.
This is one of the main reasons why I say whites should not participate in this field, their arrogance leads them to believe that they know more about black people more than black people. To directly refute what this man above is saying, first I will say 1) you can't even tell me or any other African the native culture, language, political structure or anything of Africans worldwide before we were colonized. We, Africans in the west are definitely a colonized people, so are the Africans of the homeland and we are ALL colonized by the same people, the European. We are all under the same system of white supremacy, whether overt or covert. 2) You can't an African anything about their psychological nature or the context of the psyches even.
African people in this forum the teachings of Freud, Jung and other "fathers" of psychology should not be ignored, however these people gives us no basis to our own psyche and should only be used to better understand the field. I am not speaking only of clinical psychology, social psychology and the various branches should all be re-evaluated to better suited the people of the African Holocaust, this is one thing among others we can do to free ourselves from the bondage of this system, and revert back to our true self in nature.
Ok: what's a "Black" person? Someone with real dark skin? That won't work because some Indians from India re def "black" in color. Wooly hair? That won't because some white people have "Afros" that are real.
Best yet: a person with 1 g grand parent who's Black but the person looks "white".
Ok: what's a "Black" person? Someone with real dark skin? That won't work because some Indians from India re def "black" in color. Wooly hair? That won't because some white people have "Afros" that are real.
Best yet: a person with 1 g grand parent who's Black but the person looks "white".
Nobody's ''twisting'' anything here, and I'm simply replying to you at face value... since you claim the issue is basically ''psychological'' (aka, repairing low self-esteem, albeit race-based) .... is that correct? And if so, then self-hate is still self-hate, which is not unique to blacks, regardless the reasons (sexual orientation, race, colonialism, white hegemony, whatever). Although I can see the usefulness of dealing with a therapist having a black cultural perspective (though which culture... American, Caribbean, South African, what...)?
But you still never answered the basic question, which is how how do you improve anyone's self-esteem (black, white, gay, straight, whatever), by reinforcing their sense of ''otherness'', which only increases their already profound sense of alienation?! And BTW, lotsa luck with that kinda attitude in Sub-Saharan Africa, the very birthplace of tribalism, where unlike in western culture, ''specialness'' and individual identity are still pretty low priorities!
In fact isn't that why Garveyism failed to begin with, for assuming that black racial identity was more important than cultural identity?
Garveyism failed because Gay Edgar Hoover deported The Honorable Marcus Mosiah Garvey and even then it didn't fail. His U.N.I.A. organization is still alive, the concept of Garveyism is alive and well and he is a prophet to an entire religion. To speak on things you do not understand is unwise
Quote:
Originally Posted by caribdoll
Actually, the Caribbean is a mix, and French is a minority. Spanish, Kreyol and English and spoken more than the actual French language. There are a host of cultural differences though, although plenty similarities as well. IMO, education and exposure is key for all.
You're right, my apologies. However many of the cultural differences are dependent mainly on how much the colonizers' culture of our African brothers and sisters were expunged from their culture. Such as the differences between Haitian culture and the Jamaican culture.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Paolella
The presentation has some beautiful music (Terrence Blanchard perhaps?). But the individual doing the talking is completely irrational and completely obsessed with the trivial fact of how people look. I would not waste any further time with this individual. He has nothing to offer but a racist and collectivist view of the world. May I suggest as an alternative that you concentrate on individualism, freedom, and the philosophy of Aristotle? May I suggest that you forget about your race, as it means absolutely nothing to who you are (and neither does mine). The color of your skin and my skin is as important as the color of a dog's hair or a fish's scales. You are worth nothing based on your color. Neither am I. Nothing. Worthless. Irrelevant. Unimportant. Useless. Without import. Without value. Without anything. The only things that matter are what you accomplish and how you live. You are what you do. And if all you do is complain about being a victim of racism, then what are you. A complainer. And what have you accomplished? Whining. And what value do you have? None. Your value comes from what you, as an individual, accomplish. Not what other people who have the same light reflection characteristics as you have accomplished. You cannot claim to be worth anything at all by observing that other humans who reflect light at a similar wavelength to you have been great in the present or past. And neither can I.
In fact even if you have amazing members in your immediate family, you are not amazing. They are. Unless you can show yourself evidence of why you personally are worth it based on what you have done, then your value remains at zero.
Are you getting it? Lose the group associations. They don't mean anything. Don't look for warmth in numbers. There is none. Don't look for reflected glory in the achievements of others. There is none. Look only at your own capabilities, and capitalize on them.
Only then will you have made your existence on this planet count for something. Listening to hysterical screeching rabel rousers won't help you. They thrive on their victims, their "followers". Don't be one. It's a dead end. You can probably feel that in your spirit, but don't want to admit it because going it alone may seem too damned hard. But there is no alternative. Not if you want to matter.
LOL you're mad aren't you. Only thing I'll say as, as an African man in America I will be discriminated against more so then a person who is Germanic or European, I could care less about the rest of your post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Packard fan
Ok: what's a "Black" person? Someone with real dark skin? That won't work because some Indians from India re def "black" in color. Wooly hair? That won't because some white people have "Afros" that are real.
Best yet: a person with 1 g grand parent who's Black but the person looks "white".
Sheesh!
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnonymouseX
This is why the idea of race is stupid.
What exactly does black or white mean?
Ask the Europeans who coined the terms, it wasn't African people who did so, but I do use African and black interchangeably
Quote:
Originally Posted by Packard fan
Reginald Denny getting jumped by 4 Black dudes in LA 20 years ago.
This thread is a bit of an annoyance since most of the people in the discussion do not look to get a better understanding only to refute based on their emotions. As I stated before African people already have their own branch of psychology, scientific journals and associations of African psychologists. However that went ignored because as I've said people are in their emotions and cannot engage in a civil discussion (not all but most). Many European people will ignore the very notion of white supremacy and white privilege and how it affects the colonized Africans of America and Africans worldwide. I am not even meaning to address you very people for this reason only, this is very reason why I asserted in the OP that African psychology should be administered by Africans themselves.
Ok: what's a "Black" person? Someone with real dark skin? That won't work because some Indians from India re def "black" in color. Wooly hair? That won't because some white people have "Afros" that are real.
Best yet: a person with 1 g grand parent who's Black but the person looks "white".
Sheesh!
I agree with the bold because a couple of those in my family are darker than those of African descent. But it's Europeans who came up with it and forced it on Africans brought to the West for generation upon generation. Cultural identity was restricted. Now it's likely a majority who accept the color label to some extent. It has even affected the continent to some extent via colonialism.
And just as an example of how it is tied to the oppression by Europeans, even some Indians brought to the caribbean as indentured laborers after slavery may at times describe themselves black due to complexion. When do we hear Indians straight from Indian doing the same?
Last edited by ReineDeCoeur; 01-31-2013 at 08:33 PM..
This thread is a bit of an annoyance since most of the people in the discussion do not look to get a better understanding only to refute based on their emotions. As I stated before African people already have their own branch of psychology, scientific journals and associations of African psychologists. However that went ignored because as I've said people are in their emotions and cannot engage in a civil discussion (not all but most). Many European people will ignore the very notion of white supremacy and white privilege and how it affects the colonized Africans of America and Africans worldwide. I am not even meaning to address you very people for this reason only, this is very reason why I asserted in the OP that African psychology should be administered by Africans themselves.
There is medicine, which is based on Logic and Reason, not on the color of one's skin. Rational medical practice doesn't give a rat's ass about the color of one's skin. Any human can conduct medical research and cure disease. It has nothing to do with being any particular color, or no color at all.
There is psychology, which is based in Reason and Logic. Reason and Logic know no color. Reason and Logic are based on Reality, not on Race. Therefore, the idea of African Psychology is absurd, as would be the idea of Peruvian psychology. Any human who is versed in Reason and Logic can advance the field of Psychology, discovering new ways to help humans solve their problems. Such a discipline is independent of race.
I think in this day and age, all people should forget about their racial heritage. It is a waste of time and locks one into the primitive thinking of the past. It is counterproductive and wastes time and energy. Stick with Reason. It works better and leads to better individual decisions. Just be a great person. The rest takes care of itself.
[quote=Perception;28038213]Garveyism failed because Gay Edgar Hoover deported The Honorable Marcus Mosiah Garvey and even then it didn't fail. His U.N.I.A. organization is still alive, the concept of Garveyism is alive and well and he is a prophet to an entire religion. To speak on things you do not understand is unwise [quote]
Garveyism is totally irrational. It is based on racism as a fundamental tenet of decision making. That just doesn't make any logical sense at all. It seems to me that Garveyism is based on hatred and emotionalism, and throws Reason and Logic right out the philosophical window. How can that ever lead to anything but failure and misery?
This thread is a bit of an annoyance since most of the people in the discussion do not look to get a better understanding only to refute based on their emotions. As I stated before African people already have their own branch of psychology, scientific journals and associations of African psychologists. However that went ignored because as I've said people are in their emotions and cannot engage in a civil discussion (not all but most). Many European people will ignore the very notion of white supremacy and white privilege and how it affects the colonized Africans of America and Africans worldwide. I am not even meaning to address you very people for this reason only, this is very reason why I asserted in the OP that African psychology should be administered by Africans themselves.
You don't seem to be proffering any reasoning yourself, which I find disappointing. Your "refutations" thus far pretty much boil down to "you're wrong because you're close-minded; I'm right because I'm enlightened." That's all well and good, but you still haven't really said why. How alive and well is Garveyism? How big is its following? What are its plans for the future and when will it make the earth-shattering impact it sets out to achieve?
Also, as terrible of a person J. Edgar Hoover was, cut it with the "gay" BS. His sexuality is completely irrelevant in this context, not to mention the fact it's extremely hypocritical for someone to decry white supremacy while behaving homophobically.
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