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I think your points are valid, but for a smaller portion of the population than you believe. Simple supply and demand in the market place would dictate that builders would build more if that size was requested. From a price scale point, when you get into the 1,000 sq. feet or less, it is far more economical to build a multi-unit structure. For a stand alone house, the economy of scale does not make sense. As mentioned in the post by costal chic above as well, due to cost of production, the far majority of people would want the larger house, even if 1,300 - 1,500 square feet vs 1,000 sq. feet. If you really didn't need the extra room, you could always close off that room (or two), hang dark drapes over the window, and close the vents to save a bit of energy. The only real downside would be a slightly higher tax rate. Bonus, when the house is ready for resale, you would have a far easier time selling it.
Well, if economy of scale were the main determinant of what gets built, I think there’d be fewer stand-alone homes and more multi-unit homes. But people who want and can afford single-family homes have traditionally put aside the consideration of economy of scale. (In building the homes they want to live in, they’re already not making the most economical possible choice.) So I don’t think the economy-of-scale argument is a reason to not build the smaller house if the smaller home is what someone actually prefers. If you've decided on a house and only need a small one, a larger one will have a larger absolute cost, even if it's not as expensive per square foot for the extra space.
What you and Coastal Chic and the Sunshines have all pointed out is great info, though, for anyone who does want the larger square footage (than a really small home would provide) to understand it may be more economical than they think (and to understand that they won't save as much as they think with something smaller than they ideally want).
You could be right about the small segment of people I’m imagining being smaller than I think. I have no way to know. (Without those homes readily available, it’s hard to know what would be happening if they were.) I don’t think of my needs/wants as that unusual (other than that maybe I understand, through my own experience with past condo ownership and my research for a future home, more now than I once did about the possible downside/financial risks of condo ownership).
I know I’m not statistically average in what I’m looking for (for example, as a single person rather than a larger household, I want a smaller place than most people would want), but I don’t feel that what I want is anything out of the ordinary compared with other people who are in my situation (as far as finances and household size). I don't think I invented the cabin-in-the-woods or beach shack daydream. Not everyone's dream home is a large home--people vary in what they ideally want.
But, again, you could be right (especially given my feelings about the condo form of ownership, which is certainly not the way I felt before a lot of personal experience and research).
I unfortunately don’t see an empirical testing opportunity of whether there's a market for these home (don't see small non-association homes becoming readily available such that buyers seeking smaller homes have a real alternative to condos) anytime soon.
Thanks for your thoughts. Good points for people to consider, even though I personally would still like a wider range of home-size options than are available (or would like condo options with greater safeguards/lower risk--something more comparable to the risk level of single-family home ownership).
Last edited by City__Datarer; 11-16-2014 at 06:50 PM..
CD- Have you considered a manufactured home? There are several parks in our area where the land is owned by the unit owner. That would be a way for you to have your small home, while being on a single, albeit small, lot. The major downside to manufactured homes is their vulnerability to wind, and I would imagine as a result- proportionally higher insurance costs (but still not as high as a single family due to the lower replacement cost). I think they make a lot of sense for some people. Now, if privacy is something you cherish, a park is not a place you would be happy in.
We first came to the Port Charlotte area in May of this year with the intention of buying a foreclosure in the $350k range. We wanted 3 bedrooms, pool, waterfront with approx 2000 sq feet under air. Most of the deals had been taken by that time, prices were rising and we really couldn't find a house we liked. Our agent suggested a lot and we found a nice lot with a beautiful intersecting canal view for $112k in PGI. I immediately had a dock and boat lift pilings installed (I don't own a boat yet) and we were ready to talk to builders.
This past week we signed a contract for a 3 bed, 3 bath pool home with beautiful high ceilings and 9 feet tall pocket sliders to the lanai. The house is just under 3400 sq feet with an aquarium glass window in the dining room and more pocket sliders off the master bedroom make for fabulous views from most any room in the house. We paid almost $400k for the house and this is considerably more than we had intended on spending but this will be our forever house when we retire in a few years.
Sounds like you got your Big piece of PARADISE! Congrats and good luck! Sounds absolutely beautiful!
CD- Have you considered a manufactured home? There are several parks in our area where the land is owned by the unit owner. That would be a way for you to have your small home, while being on a single, albeit small, lot. The major downside to manufactured homes is their vulnerability to wind, and I would imagine as a result- proportionally higher insurance costs (but still not as high as a single family due to the lower replacement cost). I think they make a lot of sense for some people. Now, if privacy is something you cherish, a park is not a place you would be happy in.
Yes, that's a great suggestion! I've looked into them quite a bit and have visited several and read many association online sites (newsletters etc.). I'm impressed by the friendly atmosphere, and many people seem happy with their choice to live there. And I especially like that you are generally responsible for your own roof--that can be a destabilizing thing in condo associations, when it's time to replace the roofs and the money isn't there to do it, that you can avoid by being responsible for only your personal roof on your own manufactured home.
There are things to consider, including non-concrete-block construction, the standards for wind resistance, etc., to which some of the older ones were built, and sometimes the same kinds of restrictions as other associations often have that you would not have in a non-HOA single-family home. Also, after looking into this just a bit a couple of years ago, I would need to learn more about insurance availability and cost. And unfortunately some otherwise very nice communities have homes in high-risk flood zones (this is true of a number of condos too), although certainly there are also many other manufactured homes and condos in the area that are not in high-risk flood zones, but for the ones that are, that is another trade-off to weigh. And, as someone just a little over 55+ who probably will need my home to last for several more decades, I'd love to learn of a developer building a community of all new manufactured homes that would be resident owned, but I've yet to come across one. So, I'm still considering the pros and cons of the places I do have some knowledge of compared to condos in the same price range.
But you're right, it appeals to me greatly that you have your own little (or in some cases, not so little!) house. I especially like some of the newer park models with the side rooms for extra living space. Some of them are very cute and look to be more on a scale where I wouldn't find the maintenance as daunting (although my impression is I might be limiting my options, as far as communities, too much by looking only for those). So resident-owned manufactured homes are on the list of places I may wind up in as a retirement home. If anyone has placed a new manufactured home in one of these communities, I'd welcome a direct message with details. (I'm curious about costs, including whether you'd pay an impact fee for a site previously occupied by another manufactured/mobile home, and about whether these are built only by specialized companies, or if local builders ever get involved in this type of construction.)
Thanks for the info, Coastal Chic. From what I've learned so far, this is an option worth looking into. I've stopped looking very actively lately because given that my first choice would be a single-family home, but I missed the time of great deals on those, I'm thinking I may as well take my time in finding a condo or manufactured home, but then again prices on everything may continue going up...so I appreciate the opportunity I've found here to continue learning from everyone who posts.
well I guess we are getting some things right, today at 5.45 after working on our new home since 7.15 a gent walks in, tells me he loves the house but cant afford it.....so can I build him one for $xxx....the answer is yes of course , so another one for next years order book :-)
I think the shift to lower square footage and more practicality are the result of our most recent recession. During the boom years healthy 401K returns, skyrocketing home appreciation up north, and the banks were handing out money like Halloween candy. I think a lot of people were buying in Florida at a younger age because for the cost of a couple of percent in down payment and low monthly payments why not own a vacation home? So buying with a family in mind rather than as retirees. After the bubble popped it was easy to walk away because they didn't have much invested. I think Florida learned the hard way too, exponential growth and then a steep dive into recession, a lot of people got hurt and are still hurting.
So, today, prices across the country are beginning to recover, the stock market has settled down, but there is that fear that real estate could take another dive. Hence, the practicality, buy only what you can afford and maintain the cost of. I think that's being reflected in spec homes vs. the same during the boom, if you look at homes in Rotonda that were built in the early 2000's, they probably averaged over 2500 sq. ft., is that the case anymore?
From a personal perspective, we'll probably be building within the next few years, cost is a driving factor, it depends on what we can sell our northern home for, and what we can afford to pay for and sustain in Florida, although a lot cheaper than our current location. The 3-2-2 split floor plan appeals to us, 1600 sq. ft.+, open living space and large outdoor living space, we're coming down to enjoy the weather and more time outdoors. We plan to be more than snowbirds so having enough living space for day to day with accomodations for family and guests in the winter. As someone above said, we won't have the storage we do up north but we plan on purging heavily before the move, its a lot of stuff we don't need at this point in our lives. We are looking forward to the fresh experiences of new freinds and a new community.
BTW coastal chic- with regard to how to use bedrooms vs office, I've been in high tech my whole career and I've seen technology shift offices to maximize portability. In our case, a laptop and internet connection, a small desk, some filing space, and that's it. We can easily keep a guest room as an office until we need the room for a guest.
Last edited by snowtired14; 11-30-2014 at 07:32 AM..
Reason: additional
One of our guest rooms is where this computer is and where I keep my guitars and amps and has a nice Futon in it the "other" guest room is a full time guest room..
Down sizing trend.. for us and many others Its MHO that we had homes much tooooooo large for our needs once all the kids were gone and didnt want to spend our golden years cleaning and our investment moneys keeping up with ( taxes and insurance too ) big homes.. I have seen a number of retirees down here move again and not all that far away into smaller more modest homes now that the prices are recovering..
One of our guest rooms is where this computer is and where I keep my guitars and amps and has a nice Futon in it the "other" guest room is a full time guest room..
Down sizing trend.. for us and many others Its MHO that we had homes much tooooooo large for our needs once all the kids were gone and didnt want to spend our golden years cleaning and our investment moneys keeping up with ( taxes and insurance too ) big homes.. I have seen a number of retirees down here move again and not all that far away into smaller more modest homes now that the prices are recovering..
I hear you macgregor, but I think retirees have always looked for smaller simplified living, I still think there were other factors driving the footprint up. This area is heavily populated by snowbirds, but the homes are often owned by foreign investors, they saw their homes as income generators, so renting a big villa with a pool and borrowing cheap money was the way to go. I also think domestic buyers were blinded by easy bank terms, why not build a 2800 sq. ft. house, its only a "few" bucks more than a smaller house, same down payment. Modest money down, low variable rates, then a lucrative rental market to carry any costs, just too easy.
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My thoughts
