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The vaccines we have started out their lives with efficacy ratings in the mid nineties. Vaccines we have for other diseases (MMR for example) have similar efficacy ratings. Your theoretical falls apart at that point. 91% vaccinated with a 97% effective vaccine “eradicates” endemic spread of measles. You seem to be making the argument that these vaccines are somewhat unique in their inability to prevent spread (psst vaccinated people can still catch and spread Measles…we have documented proof that it does occur). The point is if we had vax rates even in the ballpark of other things (MMR, polio for example) variants mutating would be less the undoing force they are right now.
As for the Merica thing….my use of it has nothing to do with race or political affiliation. My use of it has everything to do with actions that represent us not living up to the “greatness and exceptionalism” people love to pound their chests about. The ranks of the unvaxxed include white black red green yellow and polka dotted Americans who range from “We need an Idi Amin to save us” types to “Bernie is too conservative” types. The shinning light on the hill mythology meets cold, calculated Dunning Kruger tribalism. If you want to project my term onto a specific subset of people, have at it.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but measles isn't a virus that mutates often, even without a vaccine. You get a measles vaccine, you're good forever. Covid seems to mutate - like crazy. If you don't have a vaccine that prevents spread/mutation, you don't eradicate.
I personally wouldn't pick 'Murica' as a way to represent an African American who is hesitant due to past racist events. There is a large African American unvaccinated population.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but measles doesn't mutate, or if it does, not often. You get a measles vaccine, you're good forever. Covid seems to mutate - like crazy. If you don't have a vaccine that prevents mutation, you don't eradicate.
I personally wouldn't pick 'Murica' as a way to represent an African American who is hesitant due to past racist events. There is a large African American unvaccinated population.
Measles presently doesn't show much mutation....but Measles has been documented in the human experience at least as far back as the 800 CE. COV-SARS2 has been in the human experience for 22 months? Virus evolution/mutation, for many viruses, would appear as a massive slope on a graph. Many mutations early on, then as it figures out "how to exist within its hosts without killing them all" the rate of mutation slows. The virus needs to exist in a symbiotic relationship with its host. "Give me your lungs, nasal cavity and mouth so I can reproduce in ya...but please don't die". It's evolution on played out in a daily-weekly time scale rather than a thousands of years scale.
Ha.....the racist events of the past that currently cause some African Americans to be hesitant of vaccines would precisely be an example of Merica as I am using it. The joke is clearly flying over your head. Merica isn't the person it's the context. I'm not calling my Black former teammate in Philly who told me "I ain't getting vaxxed....I'll wait to see what it does to you white folks first" Merica....I'm calling the fact that her grandpa was part of the Tuskegee experiments (and thus she two generations later has medical trust issues)....Merica.
ETA - The urban dictionary write up on Merica is closer to my utilization...."The term is used to denote extreme, extreme nationalism and patriotism, but not necessarily facism. It is generally seen as a derogatory yet humorous way to describe most Americans: fat, lazy, gunwielding, war loving, horse riding, saloon fighting, beer drinking, sex wanting or etc."
In short, I put the racist events of the past in the "Ohhhh, Merica!" bucket.
Measles presently doesn't show much mutation....but Measles has been documented in the human experience at least as far back as the 800 CE. COV-SARS2 has been in the human experience for 22 months? Virus evolution/mutation, for many viruses, would appear as a massive slope on a graph. Many mutations early on, then as it figures out "how to exist within its hosts without killing them all" the rate of mutation slows. The virus needs to exist in a symbiotic relationship with its host. "Give me your lungs, nasal cavity and mouth so I can reproduce in ya...but please don't die". It's evolution on played out in a daily-weekly time scale rather than a thousands of years scale.
Ha.....the racist events of the past that currently cause some African Americans to be hesitant of vaccines would precisely be an example of Merica as I am using it. The joke is clearly flying over your head. Merica isn't the person it's the context. I'm not calling my Black former teammate in Philly who told me "I ain't getting vaxxed....I'll wait to see what it does to you white folks first" Merica....I'm calling the fact that her grandpa was part of the Tuskegee experiments (and thus she two generations later has medical trust issues)....Merica.
ETA - The urban dictionary write up on Merica is closer to my utilization...."The term is used to denote extreme, extreme nationalism and patriotism, but not necessarily facism. It is generally seen as a derogatory yet humorous way to describe most Americans: fat, lazy, gunwielding, war loving, horse riding, saloon fighting, beer drinking, sex wanting or etc."
In short, I put the racist events of the past in the "Ohhhh, Merica!" bucket.
Your first paragraph, you're correct and I was incorrect. However that doesn't change the fact that the Covid vaccine does not prevent a vaccinated person from spreading the virus, which means it will continue to mutate until that can be fixed.
Your second paragraph, I sure didn't get the feeling that the joke went over my head, especially based on your past posts. But I will take your word for it.
Your first paragraph, you're correct and I was incorrect. However that doesn't change the fact that the Covid vaccine does not prevent a vaccinated person from spreading the virus, which means it will continue to mutate until that can be fixed.
Again, I think the oral vaccines will help address that issue and slow the spread with better upper respiratory protection.
ETA - The urban dictionary write up on Merica is closer to my utilization...."The term is used to denote extreme, extreme nationalism and patriotism, but not necessarily facism. It is generally seen as a derogatory yet humorous way to describe most Americans: fat, lazy, gunwielding, war loving, horse riding, saloon fighting, beer drinking, sex wanting or etc."
"Wake County to mandate face masks by end of next week, Raleigh mandate could begin sooner "
Really? You can't coordinate and start the mandate on the same day for simplicity sake?
Just keep in mind that experts say we will peak sometime in the next few weeks. So while it's nice to see cases lower when we wear masks, it would likely happen regardless of the loose floppy cloth masks below everyone's nose.
Why doesn't the county provide N95's to everyone and offer fitting if they're really serious about masking? Lets do it right.
I haven't read anything that says a vaccinated person helps to slow down spread. I have read that a vaccinated person has similar viral loads to an unvaccinated person.
An *INFECTED* vaccinated person has similar viral loads to an unvaccinated person, right?
A non-infected vaccinated person... has... no viral load? Or such a miniscule one that disease cannot even be detected?
Here is an article for you, with some relevant quotes pasted below. Many studies show the vaccines are 65%+ effective against PREVENTING infection. If vaccinated people are less likely to become infected with delta in the first place, they are, by default, less likely to ultimately become a spreader of the disease. THat doesn't mean they don't spread it if they catch it -- it just means they are less likely to catch it, and therefore less likely to become a spreader.
Does that make sense? Am I missing something? It seems plain as day to me that maximizing the number of vaccinated people in turn slows the spread because vaccinated people are less likely to become infected, and therefore less likely to spread. What am I missing?
"The same study suggested that the vaccine was approximately 80 percent effective against preventing infection from the Delta variant. Scientists came to this conclusion after analyzing 14,019 people with an infection, 166 of whom were hospitalized, in England."
"Researchers also reported that people who had received two doses of a vaccine had significantly more protection against infection with the Delta variant, with researchers estimating a level of 95 percent effectiveness."
"A study in ScotlandTrusted Source found similar results. The Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, researchers concluded, offered “very good” protection against the Delta variant and demonstrated 79 percent effectiveness 14 days after receiving the second dose."
"The study suggested the vaccine was about 64 percent effective against preventing infection with the Delta variant"
An *INFECTED* vaccinated person has similar viral loads to an unvaccinated person, right?
A non-infected vaccinated person... has... no viral load? Or such a miniscule one that disease cannot even be detected?
Here is an article for you, with some relevant quotes pasted below. Many studies show the vaccines are 65%+ effective against PREVENTING infection. If vaccinated people are less likely to become infected with delta in the first place, they are, by default, less likely to ultimately become a spreader of the disease. THat doesn't mean they don't spread it if they catch it -- it just means they are less likely to catch it, and therefore less likely to become a spreader.
Does that make sense? Am I missing something? It seems plain as day to me that maximizing the number of vaccinated people in turn slows the spread because vaccinated people are less likely to become infected, and therefore less likely to spread. What am I missing?
"The same study suggested that the vaccine was approximately 80 percent effective against preventing infection from the Delta variant. Scientists came to this conclusion after analyzing 14,019 people with an infection, 166 of whom were hospitalized, in England."
"Researchers also reported that people who had received two doses of a vaccine had significantly more protection against infection with the Delta variant, with researchers estimating a level of 95 percent effectiveness."
"A study in ScotlandTrusted Source found similar results. The Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine, researchers concluded, offered “very good” protection against the Delta variant and demonstrated 79 percent effectiveness 14 days after receiving the second dose."
"The study suggested the vaccine was about 64 percent effective against preventing infection with the Delta variant"
The problem is we have no idea how many people are actually infected, because generally people without symptoms don't get tested. Those vaccinated asymptomatic people, from what I understand, can have very high viral loads.
The efficacy of the vaccines has always been "against severe disease", so I have a hard time believing that the vaccines are 80-95% effective at completely destroying an infection when they were only 90 something percent effective at preventing severe symptoms. The vaccines do great with symptoms, but seemingly not so great with actually stopping the virus. If they were, we wouldn't have a mask mandate on vaccinated people right now, right? Personally it's all very confusing to me, and the way the stats are presented make it even more confusing. I think the use of the word "infection" is questionable at best in what you posted.
Your first paragraph, you're correct and I was incorrect. However that doesn't change the fact that the Covid vaccine does not prevent a vaccinated person from spreading the virus, which means it will continue to mutate until that can be fixed.
Your second paragraph, I sure didn't get the feeling that the joke went over my head, especially based on your past posts. But I will take your word for it.
In case my posting history isn't clear...regardless of my personal political opinions, the idea that one side or another has the market cornered on "Merica" isn't something I believe. Fat, drunk and stupid, to steal Dean Wormer's line, crosses the spectrum.
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