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This is also in response to the above. Clearly the DOJ disagreed with your statement that "cirres of collusion equal "I cannot bend you to my will so you are a cheater". And not only did they disagree but they prevailed in court several times
Not all MLS boards are REALTOR® run. There are indie MLS's across the nation that had zero issues with alternative business models. My MLS is one of those, and the MLS is Seattle, which is huge, is also an indie MLS.
Those investigations are also 8-10 years old. What do you have that is recent that points to collusion about fees?
Seeing as there are around 900 separate MLS systems, with many of them operating in small population areas - the poster doesn't have to submit to your request based on population. Guessing you included that 1MM figure to suit your argument.
There are many, many towns where there are only one or two brokerages, and they both tell you when you call them that their listing rate is inflexible. And they do all of their listings through the MLS. I personally own property in a town with only one brokerage - and the "big" town next door has two, and it works this way. In my area it is custom for the listing agent or a member of their firm to be present on all showings. Based on this it is easy to see why the poster has arrived at their opinions on the industry.
Yes rural, especially very rural, real estate is a very different beast. Brokerages are allowed to set their own individual rate for their business. They don't have to negotiate that. That is different than the 10 brokerages in town all agreeing to charge the same rate. That is what happened in the big lawsuit in the 1950's when real collusion was happening in real estate.
It is part of living in a small town though. The smaller the town, the fewer the choices, the less competition. The reason MikeJ is talking about larger cities is because he knows that really small towns have few choices just by the nature of being small. If people want to live away from civilization, they can't really complain when civilization won't come to them.
And no, agents don't boycott limited rep listings. In my area of the 4272 homes that got listed this year, 2697 closed for 63%. Of the 239 limited rep listings, 153 or 64% sold. Imagine that? Right at the same level as the rest of the MLS. Of the homes that sold the lowest compensation offering was $350 and the highest was 4.5% (but it was on a $200k house). That seems like a huge range to me.
I know you want there to be collusion, but the data disagrees with you. At least in my MLS it does.
I think brokers should appreciate the view from consumers that if they inquire to local brokerages about their listing fees and are told they are the all the same and inflexible, that a consumer can reasonably conclude that there may be some hidden handshakes going on. It may be a market function or business model decision on the part of the brokers, but:
how can commissions be negotiable when consumers are told by local firms that they are not?
I think brokers should appreciate the view from consumers that if they inquire to local brokerages about their listing fees and are told they are the all the same and inflexible, that a consumer can reasonably conclude that there may be some hidden handshakes going on. It may be a market function or business model decision on the part of the brokers, but:
how can commissions be negotiable when consumers are told by local firms that they are not?
riddle me that batman.
Shades of Frank Gorshin!
You truly cannot be serious.
There's the answer to your riddle.
Slightly more academically:
"Negotiable" does not equal you getting what you want, how and when you want it. Some negotiations are more successful than others.
And some people are better negotiators than others.
Slightly more academically:
"Negotiable" does not equal you getting what you want, how and when you want it. Some negotiations are more successful than others.
And some people are better negotiators than others.
This is (yet another) non-answer. If there is no basis for negotiation, then there is no negotiation. What we are told and what we are sold are two different things.
This is (yet another) non-answer. If there is no basis for negotiation, then there is no negotiation. What we are told and what we are sold are two different things.
"When the student is ready, the teacher will appear."
As long as you demand that people agree with your errors, you will not learn.
"Negotiation" is an action, not a result.
It's only over when one person withdraws and the other does not continue.
A true negotiator will tell you that people very often do exactly what they say they will never do.
Yes rural, especially very rural, real estate is a very different beast. Brokerages are allowed to set their own individual rate for their business. They don't have to negotiate that. That is different than the 10 brokerages in town all agreeing to charge the same rate. That is what happened in the big lawsuit in the 1950's when real collusion was happening in real estate.
It is part of living in a small town though. The smaller the town, the fewer the choices, the less competition. The reason MikeJ is talking about larger cities is because he knows that really small towns have few choices just by the nature of being small. If people want to live away from civilization, they can't really complain when civilization won't come to them.
And no, agents don't boycott limited rep listings. In my area of the 4272 homes that got listed this year, 2697 closed for 63%. Of the 239 limited rep listings, 153 or 64% sold. Imagine that? Right at the same level as the rest of the MLS. Of the homes that sold the lowest compensation offering was $350 and the highest was 4.5% (but it was on a $200k house). That seems like a huge range to me.
I know you want there to be collusion, but the data disagrees with you. At least in my MLS it does.
"... The reason MikeJ is talking about larger cities is because he knows that really small towns have few choices just by the nature of being small. ..."
Well, not really. MikeJ was trying to make it easier for them.
The larger the market, economies of scale provide funding to make more data and information readily available on line. Small markets tend to not be able to afford technology that makes data and information readily available.
And, of course, a brokerage or two, or a 300 member MLS, does not provide a national trend that the posters are claiming to exist. For there to be any support for claims of overwhelming collusion, I would think it reasonable to cite multiple markets and regions with large agent membership and population base in MLSs.
Personally, if you don't have a buyer lined up I'd go with the 3% and be done with it, and maybe you can find a selling agent willing to list on MLS for 1% for the listing only. Agent fees are a sunk cost, and part of transacting land. I'm not an agent, but simple math tells me that if my buyer wants to buy a property like yours and property x will yield me 300% of what y will, I know what I'm going to push. If a buyer only wants to look at your property, but I have other buyers looking at other properties...what can i say, I might just be too busy to serve them all.
If you want to reform agency to its core, go ahead with what you're planning and best of luck to you. If you want to sell your property, go get a selling agent that's good and listen to them.
I've had all ranges of agent from terrible self-serving ones to truly exemplary examples of the profession at its finest. When you low ball on price, I'm fairly certain I know what kind you're going to get.
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