Why aren't there more tiny home communities? (square foot, condo, price)
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This is what I think, having tried to research this a few months back.
If the tiny homes were 'stationary' (no wheels, not movable) there might be a possibility of establishing a 'community.' (developer purchases land for just such a purpose). But then I think that negates the perceived benefit of a tiny home, that you can move it from location to location AND there is no property tax on it if it can be moved (as far as I know).
There are four types of "Tiny Homes".
The first are the legal ones built under the HUD exclusion per ANSI 119.5. They are legally considered recreational vehicles most commonly referred to as "Park Models". Unlike traditional RV's they are build using more common building materials and lack the utility storage capabilities (no black or grey tanks, no frame mount propane tanks, no water storage tanks, etc.). They are travel trailers built more to conventional home standards. These do have certain legal status in the US.
The second is RV's some call tiny home just because they are small and they live in them full time. There is no legal basis other than they live in it, but there isn't any real house status attached to these as they are legally just an RV.
The third is the "Shed" conversion. This is the rage right now. Buy some garden shed from HD or Lowes and convert it to a home and claim "Tiny House" elite status amongst their friends. They usually live in it for a short time until they can find someone to pay some ridiculous amount to buy it as they move to a full size SFR. Although there are some who have managed long-term, most abandon the place as just too small after the novelty wore off. Some are just people building their own small abode on a used trailer they bought from the commercial truck yard.
The last is a SFR, that is just small on square footage but built like all other homes to local building codes for a small residence, within zoning requirements, etc. These communities are appearing but are actually planned out based on all things a normal community must follow. Most have popped up where some old derelict RV park is being converted to a tiny house community since many of the limited utility needs are already in place. Additionally, these old RV parks individual space footprint is conducive to tiny homes as the lots are smaller. Which makes sense, a 500 sq foot tiny home on a 60 X 100 lot or on a 20 X 50 lot? The primary holdup to these communities is time, cost and NIMBY. It's too new a concept for most municipalities to even have regulations in place that would allow them. So new regulations need to be promulgated, developers have to be able to make some profit and communities have to see them as neighbors and not a bunch of poke bowl eating followers of a trend.
Location, location, location.
Where land is cheap, it is usually because not many people want to live there for various reasons.
In hotly desired locations, land is not cheap. Read up on "Impermeable Surface Requirements," which are becoming more common for planning and development. It may be more and more difficult to increase impermeable surfaces to cram more units, and the pavement and patios and canopies and awnings that go with them.
Accessory Dwelling Units, "ADUs," are picking up with zoning revisions. Tiny houses are one approach.
I have .33 acre, in a neighborhood of .26--.5 acre lots, average just about .33. The protections in place to assure those lot sizes and the attendant privacy, both zoning and deed covenants, were part of my reasoning and motivation.
If my neighbors were to invite senior members or extended family into their homes to live, I would be fine with that. If they were to park tiny homes in the back yard to bring more housing to market along with traffic, I would be less fine with that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabrrita
There are four types of "Tiny Homes".
The first are the legal ones built under the HUD exclusion per ANSI 119.5. They are legally considered recreational vehicles most commonly referred to as "Park Models". Unlike traditional RV's they are build using more common building materials and lack the utility storage capabilities (no black or grey tanks, no frame mount propane tanks, no water storage tanks, etc.). They are travel trailers built more to conventional home standards. These do have certain legal status in the US.
The second is RV's some call tiny home just because they are small and they live in them full time. There is no legal basis other than they live in it, but there isn't any real house status attached to these as they are legally just an RV.
The third is the "Shed" conversion. This is the rage right now. Buy some garden shed from HD or Lowes and convert it to a home and claim "Tiny House" elite status amongst their friends. They usually live in it for a short time until they can find someone to pay some ridiculous amount to buy it as they move to a full size SFR. Although there are some who have managed long-term, most abandon the place as just too small after the novelty wore off. Some are just people building their own small abode on a used trailer they bought from the commercial truck yard.
The last is a SFR, that is just small on square footage but built like all other homes to local building codes for a small residence, within zoning requirements, etc. These communities are appearing but are actually planned out based on all things a normal community must follow. Most have popped up where some old derelict RV park is being converted to a tiny house community since many of the limited utility needs are already in place. Additionally, these old RV parks individual space footprint is conducive to tiny homes as the lots are smaller. Which makes sense, a 500 sq foot tiny home on a 60 X 100 lot or on a 20 X 50 lot? The primary holdup to these communities is time, cost and NIMBY. It's too new a concept for most municipalities to even have regulations in place that would allow them. So new regulations need to be promulgated, developers have to be able to make some profit and communities have to see them as neighbors and not a bunch of poke bowl eating followers of a trend.
I quoted these two together because both touch on similar, related issues.
Mike's comment about impermeable surfaces is reality. Many of you have heard of Maryland's infamous "Rain Tax" levied on impermeable surfaces in six io seven specific jurisdictions several years ago. The second half of that is that every jurisdiction had the requirement, the jurisdictions specified had a history of ignoring environmental regulations so had to have separate revenue and expenditure lines in their budgets showing adherence to watershed and maximum load requirements. The rest of us were told just to "handle it" out of our general funds.
The "park in the back yard" is also what was at the beginning reality. The original tiny homes that were touted were all on wheels so your ne'er do well hipster nephew could park in your back yard and run a hose to your outside water and an extension cord to your outside outlet, as Rabritta alluded to.
We always have several people here who claim that jurisdictions have minimum required house sizes (I'm referring to governments, not HOAs) to limit smaller houses.
I'm familiar with almost all the Zoning codes of Maryland's 157 municipalities and none of them, that I know of, have minimum house sizes. Minimum lot sizes, yes (which refers back to Mike's impermeable surfaces and house separation) but not house sizes.
If someone wants to build a smaller house, on a foundation, hooked up to water and sewer, connected to the power grid, no Zoning Commission is going to turn that down if all the building codes are met. Neighbors with 4000 sq. ft. houses might complain but that smaller house is a "by right" building.
Where you run into issues are with the sunk cost of construction I mentioned in my first post, those costs are the same no matter the size of the house. Tie that into the developer's creed of "Highest and Best Use" and that small house becomes less attractive.
We're having a fight now here (full disclosure, Mrs. NBP is member of the Planning Commission) with a developer/builder who wants to build a four story house in a neighborhood of one, and a few two, story beach houses on a 25X100 lot. He's running into impermeable surface issues, stormwater management issues, reduction of setback issues (he wants one foot from the side lot line) as well as design standard issues (the height goes against both design standards and the Comprehensive Plan) as well as neighbor pushback.
His "sunk cost" is driving what he wants to build, and he doesn't even have to pay excise/impact fees or sewer and water tap fees as it's replacing a former house. He did overpay for the lot. By a bunch.
If he'd brought in a one, two or even three story plan he'd be pounding nails right now.
I was wondering about that. There can quite a few variables associated with having a house, but taking just two of them, eating and pandemics.
With eating and a house, one can bring down the cost by buying in bulk and cooking at home. But do tiny houses really allow that? Or rather, do they encourage a lot of eating out and take out.....which if the current reports are accurate, seems to be a lot of high cost for low quality.
We just got out of the pandemic and didn't having to shelter in place teach us anything, that if you can't store something, you are hurting?
Quite frankly, a tiny house sounds like a lot of dough without any of the advantages.
Most "older" folks would never want to live in a tiny house. Our generation have been taught that we start small (ratty little starter home)... and scrimp and save and buy a nice big fully detached 2 car garage with big backyard house.
The tiny house thing is more of a younger generation - minimalist type of lifestyle.
I have a buddy who bought 13 beautiful acres of pristine forestland far up north. It has nothing, no power, no water, no sewage - it's basically hunting heaven. He can bring in power - but of course that will cost thousands $$$.
For him building a tiny house is ideal. Super easy for him and I to throw together within a year. Plenty of plans online. The outlay for materials should not be more than $20,000. May be slightly higher if we lay a proper concrete foundation.
His brother is building a monstrosity of a cottage up that way - involving a bunch of trades, building plans submitted to the local city hall ($$$), and at least 2 years of building.
My buddy is no frills (and kinda cheap TBH), so a tiny house is right in his wheelhouse.
But yeah, tiny homes tend to be more of a niche interest for certain people.
They’re sprouting up, but not in abundance yet — I’m excited for the potential. To your question on why they haven’t become more popular: exclusionary R1 zoning laws and minimum lot & building sizes in place for many municipalities, plus probably NIMBYs.
The first are the legal ones built under the HUD exclusion per ANSI 119.5. They are legally considered recreational vehicles most commonly referred to as "Park Models". Unlike traditional RV's they are build using more common building materials and lack the utility storage capabilities (no black or grey tanks, no frame mount propane tanks, no water storage tanks, etc.). They are travel trailers built more to conventional home standards. These do have certain legal status in the US.
The second is RV's some call tiny home just because they are small and they live in them full time. There is no legal basis other than they live in it, but there isn't any real house status attached to these as they are legally just an RV.
The third is the "Shed" conversion. This is the rage right now. Buy some garden shed from HD or Lowes and convert it to a home and claim "Tiny House" elite status amongst their friends. They usually live in it for a short time until they can find someone to pay some ridiculous amount to buy it as they move to a full size SFR. Although there are some who have managed long-term, most abandon the place as just too small after the novelty wore off. Some are just people building their own small abode on a used trailer they bought from the commercial truck yard.
The last is a SFR, that is just small on square footage but built like all other homes to local building codes for a small residence, within zoning requirements, etc. These communities are appearing but are actually planned out based on all things a normal community must follow. Most have popped up where some old derelict RV park is being converted to a tiny house community since many of the limited utility needs are already in place. Additionally, these old RV parks individual space footprint is conducive to tiny homes as the lots are smaller. Which makes sense, a 500 sq foot tiny home on a 60 X 100 lot or on a 20 X 50 lot? The primary holdup to these communities is time, cost and NIMBY. It's too new a concept for most municipalities to even have regulations in place that would allow them. So new regulations need to be promulgated, developers have to be able to make some profit and communities have to see them as neighbors and not a bunch of poke bowl eating followers of a trend.
Excellent!!!! thanks fo much for taking the time to post this.....it all makes sense.
They’re sprouting up, but not in abundance yet — I’m excited for the potential. To your question on why they haven’t become more popular: exclusionary R1 zoning laws and minimum lot & building sizes in place for many municipalities, plus probably NIMBYs.
Do you have the capital, the network and the breath? A manager of mine asked me a simple question when we had an idea - can you afford to walk away? Everything else is gravy.
Most tiny homes seem to be built on wheels. This makes them "mobile homes" at best or more commonly hearabouts, as trailers (RV's)..."Trailer homes" are not permitted for full time occupancy anywhere in this state...Permitting can depend on which township too.
Tiny homes aren't allowed in MOST municipalities; that's the dirty little secret of the tiny home craze that they never reveal and why, at the end of those tiny home shows, they always end up "in my parents' back yard for now," and a lot of young people probably "illegally" live there. You can legally keep them in RV parks, but who wants to live there? In my city, new construction or pre-build must be at least 1500 sf and on a permanent foundation, and that's typical. Most cities and towns don't want to end up being Shantytowns. Personally, I could absolutely live in 500 sf or so, but a condo is as close as you can get.
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