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Would like an opinion from forum readers. Here's my story. I am a 50 yr old male, married for 28 years to the same woman. She is 48. A few years ago we moved to a latin american country where I worked for 3 years. My wife accompanied me but did not work. We were empty nesters and therefore lived alone in a large apartment in a large city. My job required a lot of travel and so I was frequently out of the city where we lived for a few days at a time. At the end of the three years we had thoroughly enjoyed our time abroad but I was transferred back to the U.S. Approx 1 year later (approx 2 years ago), I went to our (shared) desktop computer to check my e-mail and noticed that my wife had forgotten to log out of her e-mail account and so I did what I probably should not have - I went looking around a little. I was literally shocked to my core by what I found - several e-mails stretching back from the last 6 months we were abroad to some that we very current at that time. They were between my wife and an obvious "boyfriend" or "lover" from the country in which we lived. I printed a few of the more explicit ones and put them away and logged out of her account. None of them came out and said that they had engaged in sexual activity but they were full of clear love talk between lovers - in fact that was about all they contained and they were long and detailed. My wife had signed most of them with "I love you so much" or "I love and miss you so much" etc. Shocked, I also dug up her old cell phone from our time abroad which we still had - put a chip in it and fired it up. It contained several similarly worded albeit much shorter text messages between her and the same man. Finally there were also 5 voice messages from this man, which I listened to - all of them were passionate compliements of her and in some cases explicit parts of her body and ended with how much he loved her and how much she meant to him. While explicit they stopped just short of saying how much he had enjoyed sex with her during their last time together - though innuendos were made.
The next day I confronted her. At first, she denied any involvement with anyone and told me I was crazy. I then pulled out the e-mails and phone and she finally admitted that she had had a "special friendship" with this man. I pressed hard for details. Over the next 6 weeks the story slowly came out. Throughout this time the story changed so many times that I lost count as she lied to me again and again - saying something never happened but then later admitting that, well -OK, yes it did. Over this 6 week period she eventually did admit several things. Among these (there were many more but here is enough to paint a picture)
-Several romantic dinners out and many other "Dates" followed by time alone in a car or at a bar and according to her passionate kissing and "heavy petting"
-A 6 hour picnic lunch (romantic food and a full bottle of wine) date in a remote location where they were completely alone. She claims there was only limited and very brief sexual contact with hands (in both directions) and just about everything else but no actual intercourse. For example he unzipped her jeans with his teeth, but she claims to have then stopped him as he began to do what would have obviously followed and I can't probably write on this forum.
-He was in our house alone with her on several occassions and she admits to passionate kissing and "foreplay" but again denies that actual intercourse or oral sex occurred
-Phone sex (on at least one occasion, possibly more) which ended in climax for her and him
-One overnight stay where she claims he came into the apartment and engaged in heavy petting on the stairwell to our bedroom on the kitchen counter, etc but she then claims that they did not sleep toghether and that he just went outside and stood at the main entrance to the apartment building to make sure she was "safe" all night. BTW, the apartment building had a 24/7 armed guard and a bulletproof entry. When I told her this didn't make any sense, she just (and still does) stuck to the story.
Despite repeated pressing on my part she denied actual intercourse or oral sex ever occurred and still does denies that to this day.
The physical part of the relationship had ended approx 1 year before I had discovered it because we had moved, but the e-mail "love letters" had continued until I discovered it. She stopped that upon discovery and gave me full access to her e-mail accounts as proof. I am convinced that the relationship actually did stop then. Over the ensuing weeks and months we worked through our maritial issues. Honestly prior to this I didn't even think we had "marital issues" because from my view it had been a true "dream marriage" between two people madly in love (or so I thought) but she claims she had felt neglected for a long time before this and that it was neglect on my part that drove her to this relationship. Anyway since then she has been a really good friend, supportive partner, and loving wife and has never given me any reason again to not trust her. She has apologized for the "friendship" (she still to this day absolutely refuses to call it an "affair" and immediately corrects me if I do) numerous times, in tears when I first discovered it, and humbly and sincerely several times since.
Here is why I am writing. We had planned to spend our summer abroad (in a different country - in fact different continent) this summer but work circumstances have forced me to remain behind for awhile. She is currently abroad, alone. We are about 6 weeks into the separation (the separation was circumstantially forced, not planned, and actually it was me that insisted that she go on ahead without me). I will join her in about 2 weeks and we will return to the U.S. a month later together. I thought I was over the affair, for a long time now, but honestly, this separation has stirred up some old bad feelings for me. So far I have not discussed these with her and don't want to on the telephone.
My questions:
I would like some opinions on whether you think, given what I have described, if she is still lying to me about not having intercourse or oral sex with this man. I would especially be interested in the opinion of other similarly aged female readers. You must wonder - given what she did admit above, why I even care ?? Truthfully it is because I can't stand the thought of still being lied to. Personally, I find it absolutely incredible that this relationship was taken to the absolute brink - but the crowning event just never occurred but she still, to this day, swears it did not.
If your answer to that is yes then why won't she admit it ?? I have tried as hard as I know how to create a safe environment where she can be honest with me. For example I told her from the very beginning that it wasn't what happened that hurt me as much as all of the lies about it. That is still the case. Also, regardless of what happened, I love her very much and without question wish to remain married to her the rest of life and have communicated that frequently and passionately. Why won't she admit it ?? Ladies (or men) - thoughts ??
Finally, why after several years and an obviously restored relationship between us - do I still care if I ever really know ?? Am I blowing it by still wondering about something that I may never know for sure ?? Should it even matter to me anymore ? Is there something wrong with me because I am having such trouble letting this go - even after several years ??
Sorry for the length, but would really appreciate some advice as I am considering whether to re-open this subject yet one more time when we reunite in about two weeks.
Well, it appears that the physical part (whether it happened or not) means more to you, as it does to most men it seems... To me that's a full-blown affair and I don't care if sex was involved or not. Also, it only stopped because you happened to find out... Are you even sure it stopped? Heck, one can create dozens of e-mail accounts! I know I'm not putting your mind at ease, but these are the facts you've presented.
I'm sorry to hear this happened to you, bud. I think marriage puts a man into a false lull. Women are conditioned to "watch" for a man who cheats, but I think we generally think of our wives are pure and innocent. I know I did.
She cheated on you in a repeated affair, no matter what she wants to call it. Most likely, intercourse did occur. But even if it didn't, the emotional affair, to me at least, is ten times worse. And she denied it and lied to you. No married person should have to tolerate being cheated on. Period.
Would like an opinion from forum readers. Here's my story. I am a 50 yr old male, married for 28 years to the same woman. She is 48. A few years ago we moved to a latin american country where I worked for 3 years. My wife accompanied me but did not work. We were empty nesters and therefore lived alone in a large apartment in a large city. My job required a lot of travel and so I was frequently out of the city where we lived for a few days at a time. At the end of the three years we had thoroughly enjoyed our time abroad but I was transferred back to the U.S. Approx 1 year later (approx 2 years ago), I went to our (shared) desktop computer to check my e-mail and noticed that my wife had forgotten to log out of her e-mail account and so I did what I probably should not have - I went looking around a little. I was literally shocked to my core by what I found - several e-mails stretching back from the last 6 months we were abroad to some that we very current at that time. They were between my wife and an obvious "boyfriend" or "lover" from the country in which we lived. I printed a few of the more explicit ones and put them away and logged out of her account. None of them came out and said that they had engaged in sexual activity but they were full of clear love talk between lovers - in fact that was about all they contained and they were long and detailed. My wife had signed most of them with "I love you so much" or "I love and miss you so much" etc. Shocked, I also dug up her old cell phone from our time abroad which we still had - put a chip in it and fired it up. It contained several similarly worded albeit much shorter text messages between her and the same man. Finally there were also 5 voice messages from this man, which I listened to - all of them were passionate compliements of her and in some cases explicit parts of her body and ended with how much he loved her and how much she meant to him. While explicit they stopped just short of saying how much he had enjoyed sex with her during their last time together - though innuendos were made.
The next day I confronted her. At first, she denied any involvement with anyone and told me I was crazy. I then pulled out the e-mails and phone and she finally admitted that she had had a "special friendship" with this man. I pressed hard for details. Over the next 6 weeks the story slowly came out. Throughout this time the story changed so many times that I lost count as she lied to me again and again - saying something never happened but then later admitting that, well -OK, yes it did. Over this 6 week period she eventually did admit several things. Among these (there were many more but here is enough to paint a picture)
-Several romantic dinners out and many other "Dates" followed by time alone in a car or at a bar and according to her passionate kissing and "heavy petting"
-A 6 hour picnic lunch (romantic food and a full bottle of wine) date in a remote location where they were completely alone. She claims there was only limited and very brief sexual contact with hands (in both directions) and just about everything else but no actual intercourse. For example he unzipped her jeans with his teeth, but she claims to have then stopped him as he began to do what would have obviously followed and I can't probably write on this forum.
-He was in our house alone with her on several occassions and she admits to passionate kissing and "foreplay" but again denies that actual intercourse or oral sex occurred
-Phone sex (on at least one occasion, possibly more) which ended in climax for her and him
-One overnight stay where she claims he came into the apartment and engaged in heavy petting on the stairwell to our bedroom on the kitchen counter, etc but she then claims that they did not sleep toghether and that he just went outside and stood at the main entrance to the apartment building to make sure she was "safe" all night. BTW, the apartment building had a 24/7 armed guard and a bulletproof entry. When I told her this didn't make any sense, she just (and still does) stuck to the story.
Despite repeated pressing on my part she denied actual intercourse or oral sex ever occurred and still does denies that to this day.
The physical part of the relationship had ended approx 1 year before I had discovered it because we had moved, but the e-mail "love letters" had continued until I discovered it. She stopped that upon discovery and gave me full access to her e-mail accounts as proof. I am convinced that the relationship actually did stop then. Over the ensuing weeks and months we worked through our maritial issues. Honestly prior to this I didn't even think we had "marital issues" because from my view it had been a true "dream marriage" between two people madly in love (or so I thought) but she claims she had felt neglected for a long time before this and that it was neglect on my part that drove her to this relationship. Anyway since then she has been a really good friend, supportive partner, and loving wife and has never given me any reason again to not trust her. She has apologized for the "friendship" (she still to this day absolutely refuses to call it an "affair" and immediately corrects me if I do) numerous times, in tears when I first discovered it, and humbly and sincerely several times since.
Here is why I am writing. We had planned to spend our summer abroad (in a different country - in fact different continent) this summer but work circumstances have forced me to remain behind for awhile. She is currently abroad, alone. We are about 6 weeks into the separation (the separation was circumstantially forced, not planned, and actually it was me that insisted that she go on ahead without me). I will join her in about 2 weeks and we will return to the U.S. a month later together. I thought I was over the affair, for a long time now, but honestly, this separation has stirred up some old bad feelings for me. So far I have not discussed these with her and don't want to on the telephone.
My questions:
I would like some opinions on whether you think, given what I have described, if she is still lying to me about not having intercourse or oral sex with this man. I would especially be interested in the opinion of other similarly aged female readers. You must wonder - given what she did admit above, why I even care ?? Truthfully it is because I can't stand the thought of still being lied to. Personally, I find it absolutely incredible that this relationship was taken to the absolute brink - but the crowning event just never occurred but she still, to this day, swears it did not.
If your answer to that is yes then why won't she admit it ?? I have tried as hard as I know how to create a safe environment where she can be honest with me. For example I told her from the very beginning that it wasn't what happened that hurt me as much as all of the lies about it. That is still the case. Also, regardless of what happened, I love her very much and without question wish to remain married to her the rest of life and have communicated that frequently and passionately. Why won't she admit it ?? Ladies (or men) - thoughts ??
Finally, why after several years and an obviously restored relationship between us - do I still care if I ever really know ?? Am I blowing it by still wondering about something that I may never know for sure ?? Should it even matter to me anymore ? Is there something wrong with me because I am having such trouble letting this go - even after several years ??
Sorry for the length, but would really appreciate some advice as I am considering whether to re-open this subject yet one more time when we reunite in about two weeks.
Signed Still Wondering
Your wife cheated on you, plain and simple.
Cheating does not always have to include a penis in the vagina.
So why are you so focused now on whether or not penetration of the body occurred, since you obviously accepted the cheating years ago?
It's the penetration of her heart you should have been worried about before now.
Agree with lvsmtns. What does it matter if there was penetration or not. Probably was but since your wife is aware that you will flip out if you learn that, she is not going to admit to that intimacy. You guys need to see a couples therapist b/c you need more reassurance this won't happen again and maybe more details. 28 years is a long time and worth trying to work it out.
-Several romantic dinners out and many other "Dates" followed by time alone in a car or at a bar and according to her passionate kissing and "heavy petting"
-A 6 hour picnic lunch (romantic food and a full bottle of wine) date in a remote location where they were completely alone. She claims there was only limited and very brief sexual contact with hands (in both directions) and just about everything else but no actual intercourse. For example he unzipped her jeans with his teeth, but she claims to have then stopped him as he began to do what would have obviously followed and I can't probably write on this forum.
-He was in our house alone with her on several occassions and she admits to passionate kissing and "foreplay" but again denies that actual intercourse or oral sex occurred
-Phone sex (on at least one occasion, possibly more) which ended in climax for her and him
-One overnight stay where she claims he came into the apartment and engaged in heavy petting on the stairwell to our bedroom on the kitchen counter, etc but she then claims that they did not sleep toghether and that he just went outside and stood at the main entrance to the apartment building to make sure she was "safe" all night. BTW, the apartment building had a 24/7 armed guard and a bulletproof entry. When I told her this didn't make any sense, she just (and still does) stuck to the story.
Your wife has under estimated how naive you are, me thinks she could have had intercourse, claiming there were no orgasms, therefore no affair, therefore creating a shadow of a doubt due to a technicality.
That is exactly what you are doing.
She was undeniably sexual with another man. That was cheating. That was an affair. She has feelings for this man, they may only be sexual, but who really knows if she is not saying? If you don't want to share your woman, you have to figure out if you want to be apart from her. So, honorable man that he is, he kept watch outside all night.. She lacks the restraint needed to be faithful to you, but she wants you to believe she has the restraint to engage in everything but intercourse or oral sex with this man. Said the woman with the empty wallet at the checkout, I'm not buying it.
Wow....As a woman married 28 years myself I feel for you. I also commend you on trying to fix this, sticking to your vows, and wanting to spend the rest of your life with the one you love. So...you are obviously trusting your gut instinct. You KNOW you want to stay with her.
I can understand that you are bothered by the lies. I'm actually shocked about all the details you have already gotten....did you press for those details? Like unzipping her pants with his teeth?? So you really need more....will it make you feel any better? I wouldn't have wanted to know that much. I know...it boils down to lies.
This is an ugly and unfortunate thing that happened and it seems like you've made great strides in moving on...I would try my hardest not to press for more details. They won't make you feel any better.
I myself am pretty convinced my husband cheated on me in our early years of marriage and our engagement. I didn't even put the pieces together for many years and the signs were so obvious. VERY obvious. I made excuses for all of them. To this day, I have never approached him on this....I just don't feel any good would come out of it. I think I would actually feel sorry for him, cause he'd be caught red handed on something he thinks he's gotten away with. It pisses me off COMPLETELY that I feel sorry for him if I approached him. He's an awesome husband now and I know this happened a VERY long time ago and I haven't suspected it ever again.
That said...I also know how it feels to be alone a lot. My husband works VERY long hours and also can't sit still when do have some free time together. He will do laborous work to the point of exhaustion and then goes to bed....dead to the world. We only sleep together 2 night a week because of his work schedule. So...I understand the lonliness. I myself have debated what to do about it, especially since I know he wasn't faithful a long time ago. I wonder if I'd feel guilty.
I wouldn't press for details anymore...and as far as lies...there were plenty for awhile, you forgave. I'd just move forward. You've donr a VERY good job so far. I really commend you on that. You must be a good husband.
Oh....and that DEFINITELY is cheating.
Last edited by I LOVE PA!; 06-27-2010 at 09:16 PM..
Agree with lvsmtns. What does it matter if there was penetration or not. Probably was but since your wife is aware that you will flip out if you learn that, she is not going to admit to that intimacy. You guys need to see a couples therapist b/c you need more reassurance this won't happen again and maybe more details. 28 years is a long time and worth trying to work it out.
Thanks for the backup
I too think some couples therapy is a definite must at this point. You don't just throw in the towel after 28 years without one hell of a fight.
If your answer to that is yes then why won't she admit it ?? I have tried as hard as I know how to create a safe environment where she can be honest with me. For example I told her from the very beginning that it wasn't what happened that hurt me as much as all of the lies about it. That is still the case. Also, regardless of what happened, I love her very much and without question wish to remain married to her the rest of life and have communicated that frequently and passionately. Why won't she admit it ?? Ladies (or men) - thoughts ??
~~~~~~~
Could it be that she is ashamed to even admit whatever it is to herself? If/when she says--'Yes, we were lovers' then she is not the same person she was. There was a scene in SATC--Carrie had to tell Aidan that she was having an affair with Mr. Big --the look on his face when she told him was devastating. She knew he could never feel exactly the same about her again. She didn't want to see the look.
Finally, why after several years and an obviously restored relationship between us - do I still care if I ever really know ?? Am I blowing it by still wondering about something that I may never know for sure ?? Should it even matter to me anymore ? Is there something wrong with me because I am having such trouble letting this go - even after several years ??
In your position I would feel that there is something missing in the level of intimacy. I would probably ask again and I don't think it is wrong that you still wonder. I've often thought that I could get over the physical aspect of infidelity much more quickly than the idea that there was something about me that wasn't really 'enough' for a SO. It's ego and pride. I also think that is something that can be healed but imo, you deserve the truth---the whole truth.
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. She lacks the restraint needed to be faithful to you, but she wants you to believe she has the restraint to engage in everything but intercourse or oral sex with this man.
