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Hm...kinda interesting, how some C-D users here will automatically "assign blame", to the person on the short end of the stick, when it comes to love and romance in general... Like if someone is just plain unlucky in love so to speak, well then too bad so sad; it's your fault anyway and you're so "hopeless" and "desperate" (in the accuser's view at least), and so you don't "deserve love", or "to be loved", at all. What rubbish. Every person has their own set of individual circumstances, which can vary widely, so it makes no sense to generalize and apply a "one size fits all" to ppl who have a dearth or an extreme lack of love. It may indeed be *some* particular ppl's fault...but then again, labelling ppl and lumping them all into the same category never helped anyone.
Just my humble opinion, but sometimes too much leverage and latitude is given to the "have's", rather than the "have not's". If someone is paralyzed in a random accident, does the fact that some women will now potentially or even inevitably find him to be much less "desirable", romantically, also automatically make him "desperate"? Same thing, with blind or deaf people...does that alone make them "desperate", if by their disability they cannot manage to attract someone compatible or desirable, to them?
Sometimes I seriously think that "desperate" is a merely a word that the "winners" in love use, to knock down the so-called "losers", as a form of inherent self-righteousness. Are there truly "desperate" people, out there? Undoubtedly. Is a person always "desperate", merely because someone happens to call him or her, so? Hardly -- I am rather skeptical of that claim, for how do we know that the accusation is not merely weasel words or a blatant falsehood or sheer error, on behalf of the accuser?
<rant mode off> Sorry -- it's just that the "let's blame / knock down the victim a few more notches" mentality I have observed from time to time on the forum can be rather frustrating.
Oh, come on Choirboy. First the "love shyness" now this. How many "I'm helpless and people are mean" rants are we going to read?
YOU made that reality, YOU decide whether to better yourself or whine...which that's what you just did. Change your mindset to a positive light and you will get what you want. A woman!
Knight, what I think you fail to understand my friend is this, we, each of us, make our own luck
Sadly some don't get this, so they don't even try.
Normally, I would agree with you 100%, my friend lovesMountains
My concern is when people have tried hard and failed so many times that they become convinced that failure is inevitable, no matter what they do, because the ability to change the situation lies outside of their control (which is also why I listed the link about "learned helplessness").
Oh, come on Choirboy. First the "love shyness" now this. How many "I'm helpless and people are mean" rants are we going to read?
YOU made that reality, YOU decide whether to better yourself or whine...which that's what you just did. Change your mindset to a positive light and you will get what you want. A woman!
Geez, I'm not talking about *me*, or referencing *myself*, in this thread The words above are yours, not mine. I just don't happen to like it when "s/he's desperate" is automatically used as a blanket disparaging or pejorative judgment, on someone.
What's your problem? I really don't see why you have to get personal, about it...again, I wasn't talking about *me*...
Knight, you do seem to take this issue rather seriously. Also, those of us who have interacted with you in the past know that you have stated that relationships are difficult for you. It doesn't mean that we don't want you to be happy and to find what you are looking for, when we disagree with you. If I could wrinkle my nose or wave a wand and make things right for everyone in the world, I would. I would guess that everyone on this forum is hoping that one day we hear from you that you have found the love of your life. Just know that people doing without in any aspect of their live have to fix it themselves or continue to do without. For instance, you are doing well financially, if I remember correctly. Does that mean you should give all your earnings to someone not doing as well? No, you have done the work to achieve success. You will also have to do the work to achieve love. And yes it is harder for some. But financial or career success is harder for some also. Due to lack of funds or intelligence, many people have to strive exceedingly hard to get where you are. Look at it in the same light. You can achieve love, but it might take longer than you would like.
Hm...kinda interesting, how some C-D users here will automatically "assign blame", to the person on the short end of the stick, when it comes to love and romance in general... Like if someone is just plain unlucky in love so to speak, well then too bad so sad; it's your fault anyway and you're so "hopeless" and "desperate" (in the accuser's view at least), and so you don't "deserve love", or "to be loved", at all. What rubbish.
Plain unlucky in love? Do you really believe that? Or do you think people are more responsible for what happens in their lives than they're willing to admit and that it's easier for them to blame it on bad luck? Sure some of us are at a disadvantage when it comes to dating. The guy who's 5'7" is probably going to have a harder time than the guy who's 6'0". But if I were failing at something 100% of the time, I would not chalk it up to bad luck. I would look at what I was doing and see if there was anything I could change, which would include changing what women I pursue. If you want to describe that as "assigning blame" to myself, fine. But I see nothing wrong with taking responsibility for your own actions. The problem is that some people come to this forum and don't want to be told that they might be at fault. They'd rather here others validate their views.
Knight, you do seem to take this issue rather seriously. Also, those of us who have interacted with you in the past know that you have stated that relationships are difficult for you. It doesn't mean that we don't want you to be happy and to find what you are looking for, when we disagree with you. If I could wrinkle my nose or wave a wand and make things right for everyone in the world, I would. I would guess that everyone on this forum is hoping that one day we hear from you that you have found the love of your life.
Thanks for the additional input Georgianbelle. Again, I apologize if my earlier post came across as excessive or mean-spirited at all. The truth is, I actually sincerely like you as a person, and have admired many of your posts (I have rep'ped quite a few of them in the past! ).
While my earlier post may perhaps happen to relate at least to a certain degree to my own experience, please believe me when I say I wasn't talking about myself, on an individual basis. I have indeed found what I was looking for (although I won't delve into that particular subject further here, as it is OT).
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Just know that people doing without in any aspect of their live have to fix it themselves or continue to do without.
I actually agree in the large part here, with your conclusion -- my concern is if the person wants to fix their problems, but for various reasons, the underlying issues are outside of their power to change or influence.
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For instance, you are doing well financially, if I remember correctly. Does that mean you should give all your earnings to someone not doing as well? No, you have done the work to achieve success.
I'm doing well financially, relatively speaking Of course, I also have immediate dependant family members to support financially as well -- not spouses or ex'es however, as I have yet to be married thus far in my life -- as well as a monthly mortgage payment close to $4k, each of which carries its own unique respective challenges.
Quote:
You will also have to do the work to achieve love. And yes it is harder for some. But financial or career success is harder for some also. Due to lack of funds or intelligence, many people have to strive exceedingly hard to get where you are. Look at it in the same light. You can achieve love, but it might take longer than you would like.
Again thank you, for the insightful analysis...I don't dispute much of what you said in the paragraph above at all, which is quite logical...
Last edited by Phoenix2017; 05-22-2011 at 08:45 PM..
Reason: Clarified language
Plain unlucky in love? Do you really believe that? Or do you think people are more responsible for what happens in their lives than they're willing to admit and that it's easier for them to blame it on bad luck? Sure some of us are at a disadvantage when it comes to dating. The guy who's 5'7" is probably going to have a harder time than the guy who's 6'0". But if I were failing at something 100% of the time, I would not chalk it up to bad luck. I would look at what I was doing and see if there was anything I could change, which would include changing what women I pursue. If you want to describe that as "assigning blame" to myself, fine. But I see nothing wrong with taking responsibility for your own actions. The problem is that some people come to this forum and don't want to be told that they might be at fault. They'd rather here others validate their views.
Honestly, I must admit that sometimes, I am not quite sure what to believe. What you say makes sense, from an intellectual perspective. Some ppl labelled as "desperate" may in fact seek to avoid responsibility for their actions, and seek validation, much as you point out above. In that respect, you are correct.
But what if that is not the case, for all though? For example, if someone (I'm *not* talking about me here, as I am not paralyzed; just hypothetically) is completely paralyzed from the neck down, I would contend that realistically, it is going to be extremely difficult for that person to find love, given predominant cultural perspectives. Does that lessen the the basic human need of that person though, to be loved and treasured (as we all universally do), as only a prospective wife or husband can? I would say not. If that person is never able to achieve their hope and wish (having a loving, caring spouse, and their own loving family), it is going to inevitably cause them a severe degree of grief and loss. But the fact that in and of themselves, that the person cannot manage to find a loving romantic relationship (as the theoretical example cited is outside of their control), doesn't necessarily make them inherently desperate, either.
Sorry to cut you off but I just want to focus on something here. I want to clarify that I am not talking about you. I agree on two things: Yes, we shouldn't judge but know the situation first, and showing compassion to others is a good thing. However, for me, the issue is what are you going to do about it. I'm not saying for you to get up and pretend like you are fine. People who do nothing and are constantly saying "woe is me" (playing the victim game), not only will they refuse to change but others will show less compassion towards them overtime. When they refuse be responsible and to change the things they know they can change, most people don't want to deal with games and don't care to show compassion. Like you said, some things are beyond are control but we can always change ourselves or our attitude towards the situation. We can't always blame our circumstances.
If you put two people who are in the same situation (disabled and lost a loved one), one with a positive attitude and one with the negative, you can guess who will be dating.
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Originally Posted by Knight2009
Sorry for the earlier rant there Georgianbelle I wasn't trying to bash your post personally, or single it out for a harsh critique. Also to briefly clarify, I wasn't necessarily talking about myself, per se. I definitely agree with you that if a person fails once, s/he should try again, using various alternative methods. I guess my post really boiled down to 2 personal pet peeves I have: even a person may be, or is in fact, "desperate", then instead of dismissing, labelling, or flaying them verbally about (i.e., "s/he is so desperate", etc.), why not be compassionate, and understand that even if they are desperate, there may be a reason behind it outside of their control, that triggered it. If for example, the desperate person was abused, either emotionally, physically, or s*xually, and so they are craving the love that they were previously denied. If a person has had a major personal trauma or setback, such as the death of a loved one, the loss of employment, a terminal medical diagnoses such as cancer, etc. etc. To look at the *person* in question, not the just the outlying symptom of desperation.
For example, if someone (I'm *not* talking about me here, as I am not paralyzed; just hypothetically) is completely paralyzed from the neck down, I would contend that realistically, it is going to be extremely difficult for that person to find love, given predominant cultural perspectives. Does that lessen the the basic human need of that person though, to be loved and treasured (as we all universally do), as only a prospective wife or husband can? I would say not. If that person is never able to achieve their hope and wish (having a loving, caring spouse, and their own loving family), it is going to inevitably cause them a severe degree of grief and loss. But the fact that in and of themselves, that the person cannot manage to find a loving romantic relationship (as the theoretical example cited is outside of their control), doesn't necessarily make them inherently desperate, either.
I don't see the desire to be loved and treasured as a basic human need. Food and water are basic human needs. Being loved is something that people desire because they think it'll make them happier, but it's not something they absolutely need to survive. It's important to be happy with yourself even if you don't have a significant other. That's one of the first things I look for in a person. Is this person happy or at least not unhappy? If I sense she's unhappy and that she's looking for someone to make her happy, then I don't want anything to do with her. Why? Because it tells me she needs to work on herself first. Why is she unhappy? This is why I despise the movie Jerry Maguire because it popularized the whole "you complete me" nonsense. A person should be complete before they ever get involved with someone else, which brings us to desperation. Having a strong desire for a partner doesn't mean you're desperate. Desperation is when that desire is so strong that you begin to lower your standards. It's one thing to lower them if they were unrealistic. But it's another to lower them because you're tired of being alone.
I was thinking about the near unanimous advice I've observed on the forum, which encourages ladies *not* to settle for any less than their own standards for a relationship. (Which I don't necessarily disagree with -- my only issue would ideally be if certain "standards" the ladies are looking for are always 100% realistic, 100% of the time.)
At the same time, I have also seen near-100% encouragement for men *not* to place women that they're interested in romantically on a pedestal. Again, I see the inherent underlying logic and reasoning in that.
Then it happened to occur to me, there may be a certain degree of overlap, between the "pedestal" advice and the "settling" advice. Namely this: do some ladies ever place *themselves* on the proverbial pedestal, by their adoption of having excessively picky, narrow, or extreme relationships standards?
Essentially, somehow I don't think some girls necessarily need a guy to place them on a pedestal, to themselves be on one already?
Anyway, just a thought here...
I put myself on a pedestal..like a queen..
But every queen has her king..
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The words above are yours, not mine. I just don't happen to like it when "s/he's desperate" is automatically used as a blanket disparaging or pejorative judgment, on someone.
Of course, I also have immediate dependant family members to support financially as well -- not spouses or ex'es however, as I have yet to be married thus far in my life -- as well as a monthly mortgage payment close to $4k, each of which carries its own unique respective challenges.
I wasn't trying to bash your post personally, or single it out for a harsh critique. Also to briefly clarify, I wasn't necessarily talking about myself, per se. I definitely agree with you that if a person fails once, s/he should try again, using various alternative methods. I guess my post really boiled down to 2 personal pet peeves I have: even a person may be, or is in fact, "desperate", then instead of dismissing, labelling, or flaying them verbally about (i.e., "s/he is so desperate", etc.), why not be compassionate, and understand that even if they are desperate, there may be a reason behind it outside of their control, that triggered it. If for example, the desperate person was abused, either emotionally, physically, or s*xually, and so they are craving the love that they were previously denied. If a person has had a major personal trauma or setback, such as the death of a loved one, the loss of employment, a terminal medical diagnoses such as cancer, etc. etc. To look at the *person* in question, not the just the outlying symptom of desperation.
