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The premise is that women trap men into marriage thru pregnancy so that dosent really apply if a couple is already married or even a LTR where one would assume both are mature enough not to believe a pregnancy would benefit the relationship.
Which goes back to the character of those having sex. If you cant trust your partner you need to take personal precautions like check your condom and put it on yourself.
Hi 2mares,
My main point is that if a woman has access to a man's house and she is having sex with him regularly, she has access (or knowledge) to the location of the condoms. The length of the relationship doesn't really matter, it can even be a FWB situation. All that matters is access and the strength of her desire to have a child. In reality, she doesn't even have to do much except stop taking the pill since I can safely assume based on stats that most people aren't using condoms in short and LTRs anyway.
In regards to being mature enough, I'm sure we both know long term / married people who still had immature tendencies. I've seen with my own eyes, situations where the woman knew the guy didn't want a child but she just stopped taking the pill to get the job done anyway.
In regards to trust, I'm sure even you have been fooled by someone who appeared to be a complete saint. There are real actors and actresses out there. I'd follow the advice you're giving (or better yet just get out), but many think with their genitals or don't spot the ulterior motives.
This whole idea of women trapping men into marriage, well child support because no one can be forced to marry, is ridiculous.
As I stated before look at the character of those involved in the vast majority of cases. They are young, uneducated, unskilled and mostly unemployed women AND MEN that most likely would never make enough money to pay CS consistently. Really, a life of poverty living off FS, crappy government housing with a baby daddy that has the ol’ pump and dump attitude and will never give a crap about their child much less you. Constantly going back to court to try to squeeze that $150 a month out of him. And what mature intelligent guy has unprotected sex with that kind of skanky women(s). Who would want a life being hounded by the courts, loosing your license and have a bunch of poverty stricken illegitimate kids running around. I say both parties deserve what they get.
My main point is that if a woman has access to a man's house and she is having sex with him regularly, she has access (or knowledge) to the location of the condoms. The length of the relationship doesn't really matter, it can even be a FWB situation. All that matters is access and the strength of her desire to have a child. In reality, she doesn't even have to do much except stop taking the pill since I can safely assume based on stats that most people aren't using condoms in short and LTRs anyway.
In regards to being mature enough, I'm sure we both know long term / married people who still had immature tendencies. I've seen with my own eyes, situations where the woman knew the guy didn't want a child but she just stopped taking the pill to get the job done anyway.
In regards to trust, I'm sure even you have been fooled by someone who appeared to be a complete saint. There are real actors and actresses out there. I'd follow the advice you're giving (or better yet just get out), but many think with their genitals or don't spot the ulterior motives.
Yes, but these situations are not the norm. Some posters would have you believe there is an epidimic of woman wanting to get pregnant, raise a child alone and live her entire life on welfare.
Most people in marriage or LTR's have a trusting relationship at least when it comes to reproduction. And being in that type of relationship there is some expectation that a pregnancy might occur and I would believe most would be willing to step up to that if it occured or have discussed acceptable options.
There are some who would say an unmarried couple who has sex and refuses to accept the natural consequences of the sex act are being irresponsible. But that's probably for another thread.
The first hurdle in that thread being the definition of "couple".
The length of time they know each other and/or become intimate
before conception being both reasonable and objective arbiters.
Quote:
... accidentally gets ... intend to ...
"accidentally gets and "intend to" ?
HOW it comes about are rather difficult to identify beyond the biology.
This whole idea of women trapping men into marriage, well child support because no one can be forced to marry, is ridiculous.
As I stated before look at the character of those involved in the vast majority of cases. They are young, uneducated, unskilled and mostly unemployed women AND MEN that most likely would never make enough money to pay CS consistently. Really, a life of poverty living off FS, crappy government housing with a baby daddy that has the ol’ pump and dump attitude and will never give a crap about their child much less you. Constantly going back to court to try to squeeze that $150 a month out of him. And what mature intelligent guy has unprotected sex with that kind of skanky women(s). Who would want a life being hounded by the courts, loosing your license and have a bunch of poverty stricken illegitimate kids running around. I say both parties deserve what they get.
Hi 2mares,
It's all based on the person's perception. I don't know your personal situation, but you're probably looking at it from the perspective of an intelligent, educated, well-researched woman. I've found more often that low to average class, non-educated women with nothing to lose DO expect child support to be a monetary improvement compared to where they were before the child was born. To a poor or average woman, $150 to $1,000 a month extra is worth something. To upper class women, having kids this way is a burden unless she snags a rich guy.
In regards to guys and courts, I find that men in general are naive about the court system. To them, it's something that happens to "other guys". This ranges from actual good guys who want to be in the child's life, down to the bad guys who don't give a second thought about the court system while they are out pumping and dumping.
Overall, people don't seem to have the gift of foresight or do their homework, they simply learn the hard way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2mares
Yes, but these situations are not the norm. Some posters would have you believe there is an epidimic of woman wanting to get pregnant, raise a child alone and live her entire life on welfare.
Most people in marriage or LTR's have a trusting relationship at least when it comes to reproduction. And being in that type of relationship there is some expectation that a pregnancy might occur and I would believe most would be willing to step up to that if it occured or have discussed acceptable options.
I agree that this is not the norm where women wanted to raise the child alone, especially if you bring welfare into it. I really believe these women think the guy will stick around, and I'm sure the good actors give them this indication.
Regardless, it's not uncommon either to find situations where women wanted to get pregnant or wanted to keep the baby after the "oops" even though the guy wasn't thrilled about being a father. Otherwise, we wouldn't have single-mother headed families becoming such a common occurrence these days. Most of these women would be married wives.
Last edited by Freedom123; 09-14-2011 at 12:39 PM..
Otherwise, we wouldn't have single-mother headed families becoming such a common occurrence these days. Most of these women would be married wives.
But among the people I know, the single mothers *were* married wives, and either got divorced or were widowed. I honestly don't know anyone in real life who had a baby outside of a committed relationship.
But among the people I know, the single mothers *were* married wives, and either got divorced or were widowed. I honestly don't know anyone in real life who had a baby outside of a committed relationship.
Hi fleetiebelle,
I commend you for keeping such a responsible circle. More people should be like that and enforce it in their circles.
That stats don't lie though. The single mother rate is approaching 50% of all US births, and is already approaching 80% in the Black community. These are not women who got divorced or widowed. Usually I won't care since it doesn't affect me, but this type of familial arrangement is a contributing factor or correlation with many major social problems. (education, crime, imprisonment, poverty, etc).
But among the people I know, the single mothers *were* married wives, and either got divorced or were widowed. I honestly don't know anyone in real life who had a baby outside of a committed relationship.
exactly. 95% of the single parents I know are that way due to divorce or death. I do unfortunately know some of these girls who have indiscriminately had illigitimate children. I dont know any of them that are actually receiving child support. Off the top of my head, one is on welfare and and the other has her mother keep and support the child. She btw is dating the father who has another illigit child he has never paid 1 cent of cs on either child.
I do know one woman who wanted a child in a bad way. Her bf did not so she broke it off and got preg. (I have no idea who the father is). She is doing a wonderful job raising her child with no outside financial support. She is a great mother and her child is the world to her.
I commend you for keeping such a responsible circle. More people should be like that and enforce it in their circles.
That stats don't lie though. The single mother rate is approaching 50% of all US births, and is already approaching 80% in the Black community. These are not women who got divorced or widowed. Usually I won't care since it doesn't affect me, but this type of familial arrangement is a contributing factor or correlation with many major social problems. (education, crime, imprisonment, poverty, etc).
I dont know the stats you read. Can you provide a link. I would be interested to see if they go on to say what percent are receiving CS. If they specify if it is a situation where no father is in the picture or if the couple chose not to have a legal marriage? Do they count single births or multiple children? If it is an actual talled number from birth records or a limited survey. Statistics can be deceptive.
I dont know the stats you read. Can you provide a link. I would be interested to see if they go on to say what percent are receiving CS. If they specify if it is a situation where no father is in the picture or if the couple chose not to have a legal marriage? Do they count single births or multiple children? If it is an actual talled number from birth records or a limited survey. Statistics can be deceptive.
According to this article (I don't know if this is the information Freedom123 is referring to):
Quote:
The black community's 72 percent rate eclipses that of most other groups: 17 percent of Asians, 29 percent of whites, 53 percent of Hispanics and 66 percent of Native Americans were born to unwed mothers in 2008, the most recent year for which government figures are available. The rate for the overall U.S. population was 41 percent.
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