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Excellent point. Why does it not have the same insulting weight as when it's targeted at women? That answer is simple enough. It's the same reason as to why I would not be insulted if you called me a n*gger.
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In the case of gay men? Hey, as long as they're calling other men b*tches it's fine by me.
Who SAYS it isn't as insulting? If I were a gay man I might resent being called that quite a bit - perhaps as much as a woman would. Doesn't it mean the same thing, without being gender-specific?
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What does this mean? Does my example bother you? It happened. It's the last time I was called a b*tch. Was I exhibiting a behavior? No. The only reason I was called a b*tch is because I'm a woman. You know it. I know it. Everybody here knows it. It was sexist. Referring to women, no matter how they act, is sexist. Just as referring to a black man, no matter how he acts, is racist.
No, it doesn't bother me in the least. I'm sure it DID happen. What I meant was that using the behavior of young boys to construct an argument is hardly a sound strategy - we all know young boys are all stupid d*cks, right?
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I bet you weren't insulted when you were called a n*gger. So, since you're not insulted by it, does that mean black folk shouldn't be insulted? Of course not.
Because of my personal definition of the term, yes I WAS insulted.
So we're left with:
Black men can call other black men the N word, and it's cool
Top 10 songs can use the word freely - no problem
Gay men can call other gay men the B word - again, that's cool
Who SAYS it isn't as insulting? If I were a gay man I might resent being called that quite a bit - perhaps as much as a woman would. Doesn't it mean the same thing, without being gender-specific?
Yes, I think you are correct. It's insulting to men because it's feminine. And this has me thinking about gender specific insults in general (b*tch, pus$y, c*nt, wh*re). Where are the gender specific insults that represent men? D*ck doesn't seem to hold the same weight. This is probably due to power issues, etc. Just as there aren't really any racially insulting terms in regards to whites. Folk don't care about being called cracker or honk*y. Well, I guess someone does, but in general probably not.
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No, it doesn't bother me in the least. I'm sure it DID happen. What I meant was that using the behavior of young boys to construct an argument is hardly a sound strategy - we all know young boys are all stupid d*cks, right?
You make my point. To reiterate, it doesn't matter who they were. Lets call them a car full of 20-somethings. Who cares? What matters is why the word was used and what's more interesting at this point, why you don't want to address it. I hope you pause to consider it. And them being d*cks doesn't really matter, does it? There's no power dynamic there.
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Because of my personal definition of the term, yes I WAS insulted.
So we're left with:
Black men can call other black men the N word, and it's cool
Top 10 songs can use the word freely - no problem
Gay men can call other gay men the B word - again, that's cool
Young boys are all stupid d*cks
Somehow, I feel strangely unfulfilled ...
I'm not really following, tho, I'm not privy to your personal definitions and the role this play for a white man.
Yes, I think you are correct. It's insulting to men because it's feminine. And this has me thinking about gender specific insults in general (b*tch, pus$y, c*nt, wh*re). Where are the gender specific insults that represent men? D*ck doesn't seem to hold the same weight. This is probably due to power issues, etc. Just as there aren't really any racially insulting terms in regards to whites. Folk don't care about being called cracker or honk*y. Well, I guess someone does, but in general probably not.
Not so fast. You can't have it both ways. If c*nt and b*tch can be considered gender bashing, then d*ck certainly qualifies under your criteria, since women aren't calling one another d*cks. So if you call a man a d*ck, you are being sexist, plain and simple, at least according to your formula.
I'm sorry, but I've heard the most ardent feminists and activists use the term b*tch, and this is the first I've heard anyone claim it causes harm to an entire gender. I'm not saying you don't reserve the right to feel that way, but I'm just not connecting the dots on this one.
White men are indeed victims of casual racism. No need for any childish names or slurs, in most cases "white boy" will do, and it carries a negative connotation. Of course it's perfectly acceptable in the media; on television and movies, in song and print etc. We aren't supposed to be insulted. Some would argue we aren't allowed to be insulted. Still not sure how that works.
Yes, I think you are correct. It's insulting to men because it's feminine. And this has me thinking about gender specific insults in general (b*tch, pus$y, c*nt, wh*re). Where are the gender specific insults that represent men? D*ck doesn't seem to hold the same weight. This is probably due to power issues, etc. Just as there aren't really any racially insulting terms in regards to whites. Folk don't care about being called cracker or honk*y. Well, I guess someone does, but in general probably not.
I dislike being called ANY of those terms, but I guess I'm special.
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You make my point. To reiterate, it doesn't matter who they were.
In a way, it does. If a 3-year-old calls me a poopy-face, I know better than to take it as anything other than an attempt at shock humor by a little mind.
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Lets call them a car full of 20-somethings. Who cares? What matters is why the word was used and what's more interesting at this point, why you don't want to address it. I hope you pause to consider it. And them being d*cks doesn't really matter, does it? There's no power dynamic there.
As was mentioned before in this thread, the word was used for it's shock value. Words only have the power we ascribe to them - obviously this is one of the ones that bothers you. It was a lucky strike on their part, and being in the wrong place at the wrong time on yours.
And please don't play the turn-around game with me - I'm not a 20-something.
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I'm not really following, tho, I'm not privy to your personal definitions and the role this play for a white man.
Not so fast. You can't have it both ways. If c*nt and b*tch can be considered gender bashing, then d*ck certainly qualifies under your criteria, since women aren't calling one another d*cks. So if you call a man a d*ck, you are being sexist, plain and simple, at least according to your formula.
I wish it were that plain and simple, but it's not because there aren't two ways. Between the genders the power dynamic has not gone both ways. The same way the power dynamic between blacks and whites have not gone both ways. Again, that's why n*gger can be horrific and cracker is usually comedy (thinking of the Jeffersons). There's power behind the former, and nothing behind the latter. A black person can be racist against me, but for now, it doesn't matter. It has never mattered. It's the same with sexism.
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I'm sorry, but I've heard the most ardent feminists and activists use the term b*tch, and this is the first I've heard anyone claim it causes harm to an entire gender. I'm not saying you don't reserve the right to feel that way, but I'm just not connecting the dots on this one.
I don't think it matters if the pope uses it. Insults that involve gender, race, or sexual orientation are bigoted. That might not offend the masses, but it doesn't change the fact that it's bigoted. But sure, I reserve the right to be offended by sexist, racial, orientation epithets. That's not really my point/goal here. My interest is to shine a light on this issue as well as to flesh out why folk take issue with acknowledging their own behavior. Maybe it's not as socially acceptable as I first thought, otherwise folk wouldn't take issue with noting their bigoted language. But, they do. That's interesting and I can't figure it out.
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White men are indeed victims of casual racism. No need for any childish names or slurs, in most cases "white boy" will do, and it carries a negative connotation. Of course it's perfectly acceptable in the media; on television and movies, in song and print etc. We aren't supposed to be insulted. Some would argue we aren't allowed to be insulted. Still not sure how that works.
The media is a great example. While the tides may be turning, it really goes to show where the power leans in our society. It doesn't matter how many King of Queens shows exist, at this juncture at least. All the poking fun in the world isn't going to turn the tables. The consequence, as I see it, is a disrespect of the media. Think about it. If we put out a poll, maybe we should start a thread, asking people if they respected or trusted the media; what the media brings to the table, does it have merit and value, how would it turn out? My guess is that it would not be favorable.
With that said, I'm not saying that media doesn't affect people, unfortunately. Any intelligent person knows better, but I wouldn't be surprised if folk confuse their TV with reality.
You know what's the ultimate in sexism and shows what a lot of men REALLY think of women?
When they insult each other by calling each other 'women' or 'girls' or 'ladies.'
I think that is amazingly eye-opening.
Or whiny B#tch. That gets used all the time in the ED by both men and women addressing men crying over a toothache or something minor.
Fair's fair though, women are also called a b*tch for the same things.
I think as the genders meld into each other and roles are reversed and turned upside down, the name calling on both sides all becomes one after awhile. While words hurt, really does one word hurt more than another?
I think as the genders meld into each other and roles are reversed and turned upside down, the name calling on both sides all becomes one after awhile. While words hurt, really does one word hurt more than another?
Whoa, wait a minute - gender-melding? When did they make THAT a law? I didn't see anything on AOL or Yahoo about that! I'm not ready yet - I LIKE being a guy!
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This is what I could do on such short notice.
