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My opinion? There are NOT genuinely nice guys out there who for some reason women won't get involved with. Those "genuinely nice guys" generally have a whole panoply of problems.
Such as? What, being shy or afraid of rejection? Yeah, goodness forbid a guy not wanting to get torn down or humiliated by some chick just because he might not fit her unreasonably high standards. So villainous
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Originally Posted by RbccL
And who’s here complaining and unhappy, them or you? Which one then needs to change something about themselves?
A person can change what they can. Does becoming happier automatically make them attractive to women?
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Originally Posted by PriscillaVanilla
They tend to believe that simply because they meet the minimum standard of decent behavior that this entitles them to have any woman they choose. "I don't beat women up, so they should date me." That's the mentality.
just being nice and acting like a decent human being is a good start, but it's not enough.
What else is required that doesn’t require living up to superficial standards?
Dating has never been easy. Probably was easier back in the day when dating options were limited.
Don’t count on a woman to call you. I believe that women are genetically programmed to be attracted to a man who makes that first move, who back in the day might have killed that nearby animal for a meal and be a provider.
Society has progressed way faster than our evolution. Women have earned greater respect and roles than our monkey brains allowed, but we are primates and need to acknowledge those shortcomings.
Not saying any of this is right or good, but ignoring what we are makes getting past that harder.
Man, I sound douchey here, but think about it, hate me, think about it more.
We are human but barely out of primate stage. We still kinda suck. Men are gross, women can’t acknowledge their primal needs, we like to make war, and we like to be in tribes. We aren’t nearly as sophisticated as we think we are.
Dating has never been easy. Probably was easier back in the day when dating options were limited.
Don’t count on a woman to call you. I believe that women are genetically programmed to be attracted to a man who makes that first move, who back in the day might have killed that nearby animal for a meal and be a provider.
Society has progressed way faster than our evolution. Women have earned greater respect and roles than our monkey brains allowed, but we are primates and need to acknowledge those shortcomings.
Not saying any of this is right or good, but ignoring what we are makes getting past that harder.
Man, I sound douchey here, but think about it, hate me, think about it more.
We are human but barely out of primate stage. We still kinda suck. Men are gross, women can’t acknowledge their primal needs, we like to make war, and we like to be in tribes. We aren’t nearly as sophisticated as we think we are.
Yeah, well, one can probably blame neo-feminism and feminist indoctrination to a degree for men that being as masculine or whatever as women prefer. This is because Neo feminism expects mean to downplay their primal natures. Funny thing about that is, when men follow the footsteps of the feminist ideology of what a man is supposed to be, they are considered beta males, so-called nice guys, etc. that probably end up in a woman’s friend zone (if that) because they simply don’t get a lot of women’s juices flowing. Go figure.
Dating has never been easy. Probably was easier back in the day when dating options were limited.
Don’t count on a woman to call you. I believe that women are genetically programmed to be attracted to a man who makes that first move, who back in the day might have killed that nearby animal for a meal and be a provider.
Society has progressed way faster than our evolution. Women have earned greater respect and roles than our monkey brains allowed, but we are primates and need to acknowledge those shortcomings.
Not saying any of this is right or good, but ignoring what we are makes getting past that harder.
Man, I sound douchey here, but think about it, hate me, think about it more.
We are human but barely out of primate stage. We still kinda suck. Men are gross, women can’t acknowledge their primal needs, we like to make war, and we like to be in tribes. We aren’t nearly as sophisticated as we think we are.
Right, back in the day...women weren't quick to consider men "creepy" if a guy that they didn't know approached them cold turkey be it a library, bookstore, grocery store, laundramat, etc. There was no real stranger danger back then.
But...women of the 40s and 50s were pretty much on open to being approached because they were hoping to become the next Mrs. so-and-so. A future housewife and mother was pretty much the only option. If they worked, it was as a secretary or a nurse.
I've heard how we met stories from baby boomers that would creep the hell out of women today. Like a guy sending flowers to a woman at work was a typical thing after a first date back then...that's just an example.
If you did that today, it'd freak a woman out. In a sense, women or feminism have made it harder for men to make an approach outside of their friend's social circles. And if all your friends got married and you were the one left unmarried, well, you are left to your own devices to do these approaches.
Such as? What, being shy or afraid of rejection? Yeah, goodness forbid a guy not wanting to get torn down or humiliated by some chick just because he might not fit her unreasonably high standards. So villainous
This reply may be indicative of the problem you have with connecting to women. The connection part is important. You seem to be looking for sex over connection, which while that may be what some women want, it certainly reduces your available dating pool.
“Get torn down or humiliated”. You are looking at this the wrong way. Unless you are in high school or really stupid about your approach, women are not going to tear you down or humiliate you. They may not agree to date you or have sex with you, but a “no” is not an attack or a humiliation. It may not be the answer you want, but it isn’t a judgment of your worth as a human being.
Think about all of the people you have rejected over your life. You turn down sales pitches all the time. If you are in a restaurant and turn down the waiter’s offer of dessert, do you look at that as a humiliation for the waiter? You have the right not to supersize your fries, don’t you think a woman has the right not to share her body with you?
A no is simply that. A no. It should not be an ego shattering event, and you getting over that is something for you to work in. If you can get over that, make a reasonable approach to 20 women, and several will say yes.
“Some chick”. Really? This is the attitude you expect should lead to intimacy? Try to remember that women are people too. I suspect that your dehumanizing terms show up in your demeanor, which would be off-putting to most women.
“Unreasonably high standards”. Get over this. Right now. This is toxic and poisoning your attitude. There are many, many reasons why a person may reject you. They may have a boyfriend. They may be a lesbian. They may not be interested in a relationship/intimacy with anybody that night/week/month. They may not be feeling well, they may have different hobbies and interests. It may be that they simply aren’t attracted to you. They may be insecure themselves and need to be pursued a little.
You seem to think that women have some sort of weird checklist that includes, jawline;cheekbones; hair; muscles; money; career; clothing; etc. sure, some do, but the vast majority do not. As with all people, you need to have something that interests them, but it could be one of many different things.
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A person can change what they can. Does becoming happier automatically make them attractive to women?
Not to all women, but to most, yes. Who wants to spend time with a gloomy, morose, depressing, resentful person? Isn’t it better to spend time with friendly, happy people? Even better if that friendly happy person doesn’t objectify them and is scheming solely to get into their pants.
Here is a hint. Women want to let men into their pants. Sex is a desire for men and women. But most people want to have a bit more than that, so if you can be friendly, happy, funny, athletic, artistic, talented or something, that gives a woman the reason to be intimate.
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What else is required that doesn’t require living up to superficial standards?
Again, they aren’t as superficial as you think, and there is no set of objective standards. You simply need to stand out in some positive way, one way among many possibilities, then put yourself out there. You will get a few rejections, but sooner or later you will find a woman who likes that one thing you are better at than the next guy
Yeah, well, one can probably blame neo-feminism and feminist indoctrination to a degree for men that being as masculine or whatever as women prefer. This is because Neo feminism expects mean to downplay their primal natures. Funny thing about that is, when men follow the footsteps of the feminist ideology of what a man is supposed to be, they are considered beta males, so-called nice guys, etc. that probably end up in a woman’s friend zone (if that) because they simply don’t get a lot of women’s juices flowing. Go figure.
Complete nonsense. You are incredibly wrong. You are making so many mistakes in this short post it is incredible.
You are throwing terms like “neo-feminist” and “feminist indoctrination” around as pejorative, and I doubt you can even give a concise definition. Let’s just say that if you think of feminism as equality, and consider the logical conclusions of equality, I suspect it would be very different from whatever twisted concept you hold.
Is it so wrong to consider women as equals?
Secondly, do you really believe that all men and all women share one of two primal natures? If so, you are incredibly wrong. There are many different things that drive different people to different degrees.
This alpha male/beta male categorization you hold isn’t reality, and it isn’t helpful. I have exhibited characteristics of both caricatures, at different times and different environments. You could characterize me as both or neither. I can say that any success I have had with women has not been based upon my supposed alpha characteristics. On the other hand, talking to a woman, respecting her, being a friend, has led me into romantic relationships more often than not.
Juices flowing? Again, you are speaking about women as objects. Get over that. Your focus on sex is killing any chance you have. Meet somebody. Treat them well. Pick up on the physical cues (light physical touching, playing with hair, eye contact, body language). Understand that sex is important, but do not treat it as the only goal. Women want sex as much as you do, but if you go crashing it with a wild eyed stare with the attitude that “SEX NOW!” is the goal, you throw away the opportunity.
I am not saying that hookups don’t happen. They do. But even most hookups require some socializing, and until you have gotten some practice at talking to women, you won’t develop that set of social skills either.
At its core, that is likely your problem. Appearance helps, but social skills are the key. Social skills can be developed.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,936 posts, read 36,957,550 times
Reputation: 40635
Quote:
Originally Posted by PriscillaVanilla
Let's face it, men and women want different things.
I don't find this to be the case at all. Most people want connection and chemistry, to have engaging conversations and laughter, and in romantic situations, the passions that result from these.
I don't find this to be the case at all. Most people want connection and chemistry, to have engaging conversations and laughter, and in romantic situations, the passions that result from these.
You are right, and that's where Ray is going wrong in approach to relationships. It's not a test or a competition. People are just trying to meet other people who are fun and interesting. Sitting on the internet with a chip on your shoulder doesn't get you far in that arena.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,936 posts, read 36,957,550 times
Reputation: 40635
Quote:
Originally Posted by fleetiebelle
You are right, and that's where Ray is going wrong in approach to relationships. It's not a test or a competition. People are just trying to meet other people who are fun and interesting. Sitting on the internet with a chip on your shoulder doesn't get you far in that arena.
Is he seeking a relationship? Or just sex?
I know this is denied a lot in some places, but there are plenty of women that use OLD to find sex partners and not relationships (though relationships sometimes results). The thing is, they're not looking for guys with a chip on their shoulder either. The approach is the same. Some connection, some attraction, being on the same page or complimenting pages compatibility and skill wise, and you of course can't (as a dude) come across as desperate or even worse, being a creep.
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