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Theres a lot to think about before you have children, you have to be commited to giving that child every opportunity for success, if your not willing to sacrafice then it's best not to have any, when someone asks me about it i always lay it out for them. Having children just because that what you think is the norm is the wrong reason and having children is not right for everyone. I feel it is very unselfish to not have children, the future of this world is not pretty.
I realized KayKay was the poster who told fence-sitters they should go ahead and have children because they wouldn't regret it. However, MommaBear did state that there was nothing wrong with thinking that way. You(MommaBear) said that KayKay's "perspective holds water." No, it doesn't. It's beyond silly, and the good parents I know agree with me.
As for childfree vs. childless, google "childfree." It's a widely accepted term with specific meaning. You weren't childfree, as a childfree woman would abort if she got pregnant, rather than "taking the risk" and having a baby.
We don't want someone telling us "would you consider having kids?" any more than you'd want someone telling you "would you consider aborting that pregnancy, or "would you consider getting a tubal?"
You clearly don't see both perspectives. Oh well.
Neesie - I was defending KayKay's perspective because I get what she's saying - IMO it does hold water... not for you and not for everyone but it does for some people.
I don't think you should define my life with made up words. It's silly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neesie
You clearly don't see both perspectives. Oh well.
Okay Neesie, if that's what you think it must be true.
That's so true in theory, but I spent much of my adult life having to defend my choice from people who said I was not a natural woman, that I was selfish, cold, didn't know what "real love" was, should pray for the desire to have children, and on and on.
I don't know what being a parent is like, and parents have no clue what it's like to have to defend your life choice over and over.
Thanks, Creme.
Neesie, now get I why you have such strong feelings in the matter. As I stated in a previous post - chosing to not having children doesn't diminish the value of someone's life and I can say that as a parent. I would never go as far as telling someone they are selfish, cold, etc. as that seems mean. I'm not sure what people mean by saying that a childless person wouldn't know what "real love" was... they may not know what it means to love a child... but we all have the ability to know real love.
Neesie, now get I why you have such strong feelings in the matter. As I stated in a previous post - chosing to not having children doesn't diminish the value of someone's life and I can say that as a parent. I would never go as far as telling someone they are selfish, cold, etc. as that seems mean. I'm not sure what people mean by saying that a childless person wouldn't know what "real love" was... they may not know what it means to love a child... but we all have the ability to know real love.
momabear2,
I don't think anyone is calling anyone else, cold, selfish, etc....not here anyway....
The point I was trying to make is when you don't have children, you learn to be more self indulgent.
I am alone now, by choice...I have become so protective of my aloneness, that I won't allow anyone in....it is for me, peace and quiet....harmony...I won't compromise that for anyone...not even my child. It is a proven fact, the longer one is alone, the more selfish one becomes with their time. I loath having to adhear to anyone else's schedules...I drive alone....and when I have company come stay over at my house....I can't wait for my home to be quiet once more. It's the truth....I can't live up to anyone else's expectations of what my life should be anymore. I won't. So, selfish or not, I'll be the first one to admit it...and I've seen my sisters and brother become more and more self indulgent, self imposed, it is their way of life, doesn't mean, they are bad people. I've also seen them do wonderful things for others...and I love them for who they are, not for what they can contribute to my way of thinking.
I think I understood what you were saying Creme - as neesie stated people were calling her cold, etc. because of her choice - and I get why that would bother her as it is not fair to label someone that way and I was just clarifying that that's not something I would think of anyone. I have suggested having kids to a few people in my life... but they were always on the fence while their partners were not (as they wanted kids). I wasn't trying to change their thinking - but I do give them a different perspective - as with any life altering choice it's good - IMO - to have different views.
If I had not met my husband I would have chosen to be alone (seriously). He's the one that made me think of life as a parent as I am so crazy about him (even still) that I couldn't deprive the love of my life of children - had I refused it would have been over. Before him, I was resigned to the idea that I would be alone... unmarried with no kids and was happy with that - having kids/being married was not a lifestyle I desired.
My family was relentless... especially my sister (devout So. Baptist) and father (very old fashioned). "You should find yourself a nice man, get married, and have kids." "It's not natural for a woman to not be married..." "... a woman's goal in life should be having children" "the most important role in a woman's life is being a mother". Blah, blah, blah... Looking back, I know they meant well and had they put it differently I might not have taken offense to it. It wasn't a compliment but rather, it was a "you should do things this way because that's the way it is" sort of statements... if that makes sense.
Being criticized for a lifestyle choice continues on whether one has children or not... the childless do not have that market cornered by any means. Parents are constantly bashed... we drive too slow, we're breeders, our kids are annoying, we're selfish, we are oblivious, stupid, soccer moms (and not in a good way), boring, all we want to do is be with our kids, lots of eye rolling, judgement, head shaking. It's harsh as well but on a different scale.
well, I guess, it's a lesson we can all learn...to try and do the best we can, with what we've got and stop worrying about the other person, or looking for approval to be happy....perhaps now, we can all see the dangers and the pain that society can inflict upon another human being, regardless of that person's beliefs...it doesn't make them bad, b/c they don't agree with us...or us right, b/c they don't live their lives according to what we do...we are all still learning...and trying to do the best we can...at whatever we choose...therefore, should have no time to criticize or bad mouth another, for what they choose to do with their lives...it's theirs...
which bring another thought to mind...do unto others....doesn't mean, we must live our lives according to another person's idea of what life should be, does it?
Sorry, if I got this whole thing stirred up. My point is simply this: I think many of us have some doubts about the decision whether to have children or not. I'm not talking here about those who are firmly decided, but those who just waver back and forth. I just know from my own experience that I was a woman who was not maternal, who didn't particularly enjoy the company of children, etc. etc. To be blunt, kids did and actually still do, many times get on my nerves. I was happy with my life without them. But when we adopted our son, as I shared in my initial post, I loved him immensely from the get-go. He was one of the best experiences of my entire life. Parenting him enriched me and fulfilled in unimaginable ways. I guess my point is this to those sitting on the fence about having kids: just realize that how you feel about other's children is not necessarily how you will feel about your own. Totally different story IMO.
As for those who make judgments or make you feel "different" about not having kids, this is blunt, but it is really none of their business. Don't worry about them. I kinda do understand about that kinda thing because we were married for 10 years before we adopted our son. I really didn't appreciate explaining my medical problems etc. I bet "Miss Manners" would say they really shouldn't ask why you don't have kids.
Sorry, if I got this whole thing stirred up. My point is simply this: I think many of us have some doubts about the decision whether to have children or not. I'm not talking here about those who are firmly decided, but those who just waver back and forth. I just know from my own experience that I was a woman who was not maternal, who didn't particularly enjoy the company of children, etc. etc. To be blunt, kids did and actually still do, many times get on my nerves. I was happy with my life without them. But when we adopted our son, as I shared in my initial post, I loved him immensely from the get-go. He was one of the best experiences of my entire life. Parenting him enriched me and fulfilled in unimaginable ways. I guess my point is this to those sitting on the fence about having kids: just realize that how you feel about other's children is not necessarily how you will feel about your own. Totally different story IMO.
As for those who make judgments or make you feel "different" about not having kids, this is blunt, but it is really none of their business. Don't worry about them. I kinda do understand about that kinda thing because we were married for 10 years before we adopted our son. I really didn't appreciate explaining my medical problems etc. I bet "Miss Manners" would say they really shouldn't ask why you don't have kids.
I think we all do a pretty good job of getting ourselves stirred up...this is a discussion forum and we're all bound to get a little defensive of our choices...KayKay, it was your honest opinion, do not ever feel sorry for that...
and I'm also going to add...to everyone, just a thought...yanno, when you have to deal with other people's kids, your not nearly as patient...but when it is your child, it is a whole different ball game.
Hugs and thanks so much to all of you for making this thread possible...it was great contemplation....
Creme
"Neesie - I was defending KayKay's perspective because I get what she's saying - IMO it does hold water... not for you and not for everyone but it does for some people. "
Telling someone who's uncertain whether or not they want children to just go ahead and do it because you yourself love parenthood is wrong. Period. Just as it would be wrong for me to tell that same person to not have children because I'm happy without them.
"I don't think you should define my life with made up words. It's silly."
Funny that this made-up word shows up in Wikipedia and gets 610,000 Google hits.
"If I had not met my husband I would have chosen to be alone (seriously). He's the one that made me think of life as a parent as I am so crazy about him (even still) that I couldn't deprive the love of my life of children - had I refused it would have been over. Before him, I was resigned to the idea that I would be alone... unmarried with no kids and was happy with that - having kids/being married was not a lifestyle I desired. "
This also illustrates the difference between childless and childfree. Those of us who are CF would end the relationship before having a child. For that matter, we would not even be in a relationship with someone who wanted children. My ex and I divorced after he thought he could "change my mind" about having kids (I'd been clear I didn't want them, and he seemed fine with that on the surface). That wasn't the only reason, but it was a factor and would have been a deal-breaker.
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