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Either way, she seemed to agree with the counter I made to her point, at least the first paragraph. If you feel the angle is pointless, that's fine. It still doesn't mean there isn't a gun-shy factor of doing so when it goes in the male to female direction. If you don't feel it's a sacred cow, that's your opinion, but many others seem to disagree with you, and I'm not just talking about this online forum.
In regards to bigotry, I guess we all are since both men and women do it when we speak in generalities and majorities. It's even done in this forum, even you do it when you post your studies. The only difference, really, is that it is much less PC to criticize men as a group, compared to women.
In regards to discussing groups, go for it. I have no problem discussing and criticizing "my team" when it's necessary, as you've seen when those who speak fondly for the "good ole days for men" start posting.
Sorry for the long delay. I had one hell of a week, last week. Sure, she agreed with you. Her opinion of men is about as low as it goes. Clearly, there are men out there who prove her correct, given that you are arguing it, and rightfully so I imagine in some cases. As far as who does and doesn't agree with it being a sacred cow, obviously not all are going to agree. That's really the point. We're not carbon copies of each other. All men are not carbon copies of you and the men you associate with and vice versa for women.
Regarding PC, please don't make me laugh. Men thrash on women all day, every day. PC comes into play when it comes to certain races and certain religions, certainly not gender. Besides, men thrash on other men at exponential rates, so I'm not buying it.
You have not addressed your team yet. What exactly describes your team? I have no idea.
Sorry for the long delay. I had one hell of a week, last week. Sure, she agreed with you. Her opinion of men is about as low as it goes. Clearly, there are men out there who prove her correct, given that you are arguing it, and rightfully so I imagine in some cases. As far as who does and doesn't agree with it being a sacred cow, obviously not all are going to agree. That's really the point. We're not carbon copies of each other. All men are not carbon copies of you and the men you associate with and vice versa for women.
Regarding PC, please don't make me laugh. Men thrash on women all day, every day. PC comes into play when it comes to certain races and certain religions, certainly not gender. Besides, men thrash on other men at exponential rates, so I'm not buying it.
You have not addressed your team yet. What exactly describes your team? I have no idea.
No worries, I haven't been around this site much in the past week either.
I agree that we are not carbon copies, yet I'm not going to ignore noticeable occurrences and trends to reach for the "we're all individuals" excuse. I don't see how we disagree on this point since you said in the same paragraph "rightfully so in some cases". That opinion is not much further away from what I'm saying.
Funny you say that women don't fall into the PC category as certain races and religions do. Maybe it's not evident in your environment. I don't understand your rebuttal about men thrashing on each other, you're sharing an opinion I agree with. Men are one of the FEW groups that IS PC to bash, thrash, criticize, etc. No one stands up for men when they are criticized, male genitalia injury is seen as comedy, and even men don't stand up for men when we're generalized negatively. Reverse the genders and try making statements about women generally in any form that isn't 100% positive, and see how quickly the cavalry rides in, both women and men. Only online do you see men standing up to negative criticism of men, especially when it comes out of the mouths of women. In real life, the men stupidly nod and agree with negative portrayals of themselves. Even in real life most of the men on this site would likely keep their mouths shut.
In regards to teams, I was speaking tongue in cheek, as I generally speak for myself. However, the team I am sometimes assigned to: "the non PC male team" is the team I am referring to. I've criticized more than a few non-PC male opinions here, especially in regards to how the world was so much better when women had less rights. I don't agree with that all, as women having more rights create more freedoms for me too, except maybe in the family court area. Even though I dislike that aspect, I prefer to live in this current state of society than their "good ole days". I live by an egalitarian philosophy, and believe women are equal to men by default. The difference is, I am willing to criticize women who claim they are for equality yet say/do things that are opposed to it. As a result, I find myself in debates like our current back and forth.
No worries, I haven't been around this site much in the past week either.
I agree that we are not carbon copies, yet I'm not going to ignore noticeable occurrences and trends to reach for the "we're all individuals" excuse. I don't see how we disagree on this point since you said in the same paragraph "rightfully so in some cases". That opinion is not much further away from what I'm saying.
Of course some fit the bill. I just don't buy into the idea that it's inherent across the board. From what I have learned it's 99% cultural.
Quote:
Funny you say that women don't fall into the PC category as certain races and religions do. Maybe it's not evident in your environment. I don't understand your rebuttal about men thrashing on each other, you're sharing an opinion I agree with. Men are one of the FEW groups that IS PC to bash, thrash, criticize, etc. No one stands up for men when they are criticized, male genitalia injury is seen as comedy, and even men don't stand up for men when we're generalized negatively. Reverse the genders and try making statements about women generally in any form that isn't 100% positive, and see how quickly the cavalry rides in, both women and men. Only online do you see men standing up to negative criticism of men, especially when it comes out of the mouths of women. In real life, the men stupidly nod and agree with negative portrayals of themselves. Even in real life most of the men on this site would likely keep their mouths shut.
You have to be kidding. Women are objectified. I'd like you to pause and think about what that word means. Women are objectified to a degree where it's so embedded in every society on the planet that it's simply an accepted norm. T&A sells, T&A is responsible for DV, rape, murder, etc. T&A before brains and soul.
What I see online, to be frank, is a whole lot of effed up people playing the blame game. You guys want to sell that off line is a sit-com and maybe that's how you view the world, but I can't take that seriously.
Quote:
In regards to teams, I was speaking tongue in cheek, as I generally speak for myself. However, the team I am sometimes assigned to: "the non PC male team" is the team I am referring to. I've criticized more than a few non-PC male opinions here, especially in regards to how the world was so much better when women had less rights. I don't agree with that all, as women having more rights create more freedoms for me too, except maybe in the family court area. Even though I dislike that aspect, I prefer to live in this current state of society than their "good ole days". I live by an egalitarian philosophy, and believe women are equal to men by default. The difference is, I am willing to criticize women who claim they are for equality yet say/do things that are opposed to it. As a result, I find myself in debates like our current back and forth.
You are a hypocrite because your angle is bigoted. You assign your experiences, which may be very narrow experiences, to women en masse. You don't appear to parse. You don't appear to even know that other groups/cultures/way of life exist beyond your own. Let's look at the result you note. You are indeed in a back and forth debate with me and that's because you're debating with a woman who is for equality yet says/does things that are opposed to it?
reverse the genders and try making statements about women generally in any form that isn't 100% positive, and see how quickly the cavalry rides in, both women and men. Only online do you see men standing up to negative criticism of men, especially when it comes out of the mouths of women. In real life, the men stupidly nod and agree with negative portrayals of themselves. Even in real life most of the men on this site would likely keep their mouths shut.
The only way a girl will ever go out with me is if she is willing to lower her standards by a lot. Do any women ever do this?
Yes, women lower their standards when the following happens:
• They get old.
• They gain weight.
• When they go broke/job loss.
• When they become sick.
• As soon as they become a single mom.
• When they're in transition between relationships and they're looking for a rebound guy.
• When they're on vacation away from people who know them.
• When they start using hard drugs.
I've found that to find a partner, there has to be a 'perfect storm' with both people. I know I'm not everyone's cup-of-tea and you probably aren't either. The farther one moves from 'average' in a negative way (height, weight, looks etc.) the harder it is going to be to find someone, you essentially make yourself a niche prospect. I know quite a few 'niche' people and while they're all perfectly good folks, they all have trouble dating.
Now, standard wise..that depends. Everyone has their own specific standards and they're constantly changing. I could dumb myself down, start wearing 'trendy' clothes and dye my hair a color that exists in nature to make myself more appealing to the masses, but I'm not interested in the masses. Are you? To ask if women lower their standards is silly,because every woman's standards is different, as are men's.
No, it's not. Because what women have to do in order to land a date is incomparable to what most men have to go through.
You have no idea, the average man has to have a house, a nice car, a good job, nice clothes, be over 6ft tall..... ect, in order to get a decent woman to even look his way because the average man has to compete with all the millionaire celebrities that most women lust after like David Beckham.
And I strongly disagree that every woman's standard is different. Most women want the same kind of man, they want a man who is around the same age as them, or older, who is RICH.
Yes, women lower their standards when the following happens:
• They get old.
• They gain weight.
• When they go broke/job loss.
• When they become sick.
• As soon as they become a single mom.
• When they're in transition between relationships and they're looking for a rebound guy.
• When they're on vacation away from people who know them.
• When they start using hard drugs.
I agree with this statement 100%. Especially the older single moms
No, it's not. Because what women have to do in order to land a date is incomparable to what most men have to go through.
You have no idea, the average man has to have a house, a nice car, a good job, nice clothes, be over 6ft tall..... ect, in order to get a decent woman to even look his way because the average man has to compete with all the millionaire celebrities that most women lust after like David Beckham.
And I strongly disagree that every woman's standard is different. Most women want the same kind of man, they want a man who is around the same age as them, or older, who is RICH.
Weird, I've never dated a man who had a house, a nice car, a good job, nice clothes and most of them have been well under 6' tall, and I'm OVER 6' tall. Perhaps I'm just not a decent woman because I don't care about that material crap and neither do most of my friends.
We women have to compete with all those celebrities as well ya know. I got to deal with my ex complaining about why I didn't look like the porn stars he thought were hot. Or wondering why my rear wasn't as big as Kim Kardashians, or trying to get me to change my hair color, or complaining I was too tall, or too fat etc etc. I heard it allll the time.
And I don't know a single woman out there who really thinks she's going to get a man like David Beckham. I may 'lust' after Ryan Lochte but there's no way in hell I'd ever be able to get a guy like that, nor would I really...he seems like kind of an idiot. A pretty idiot, but an idiot nonetheless.
Like I've said before on this forum, I've only dated one man who made more than me. One. And he was a jerk. Being rich doesn't matter to me and it doesn't matter to most decent women. Quit going after the shallow hot chicks and you'll probably find some of us out there. Of course, since we're not hot you probably wouldn't be interested
Yes, women lower their standards when the following happens:
• They get old.
• They gain weight.
• When they go broke/job loss.
• When they become sick.
• As soon as they become a single mom.
• When they're in transition between relationships and they're looking for a rebound guy.
• When they're on vacation away from people who know them.
• When they start using hard drugs.
Oh - so THIS is why I never lowered my standards. Okay.
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