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The title of this thread was something I heard come up in a conversation the other day. Then today I saw this news clip about a woman who kicked broke a window in a cop car when she was arrested. Angry Woman Kicks Out Police Car Window - YouTube
And, sadly, I recently broke up with my new gf because I really no longer wanted to be involved with a woman who was a bit more bitchy, tempermental, and nagging, for my taste, despite all the other wonderful qualities about her. There is a point where the bad qualities in a SO can end up outweighing the good qualities. IMHO, women can become so toxic that no matter how hot and beautiful, they just become patently unattractive and ugly. And, yes, I absolutely agree that men can also be a-holes, jerks, bastards, etc.
But the point of this thread is really to generate some discussion about an underlying assumption to many of the threads here on CD that involve chivalry, proper dating etiquette for men "chasing" women, traits of younger vs. older women (e.g., baggage), American vs. international women, etc. More specifically, the assumption is women are naturally nice, "feminine", sweet, and caring toward men.
While I agree that for many that assumption is true, more and more I find that many women have become more masculine and, thereby, just plainly unattractive, at least for this guy.
And just for the record, I am a believer in gender equality and in some of the goals of feminism (some are too extreme in my opinion, e.g. women in combat), but I think something has been lost along the way in that progress, like femininity, and chivalry, which has certainly complicated dating expectations and protocol (e.g., men paying for dates vs. going dutch, opening doors for women, etc.)
Anyway, the point of this tread is just to generate some discussion about the ASSUMPTIONS of femininity in women (and I guess chivalry in men), and what has happened to it and why.... or if you think it's still the same as say 50years ago or inherent natural traits.
It all depends on what you mean by "masculine" and "feminine." A lot of the internet guys who complain about women being men seem to have this idea of women needing to be "less" than a man. She has to be deferential and dependent and less successful, less intelligent, less capable than he is, otherwise she's not a real woman. They've got this geisha fantasy that woman who take care of business don't fit into.
It's so funny - it appears as though women just can't win with some of the men from CD. Some men are upset because some women don't approach men more often, don't pay for dates, don't buy men candy and flowers, don't contribute equally, don't make as much money, don't want to be a working mother, etc. - and then some men are upset because some women DO do those things!
These are all traits that were chalked up as traditionally feminine and used as part of the excuses to keep women out of spheres seen as "manly." Read the works of Jane Austen - the sane, stable women are the ones who are seen as unfeminine or not quite right. Women were SUPPOSED to be hysterical and overwrought and tempestuous. So your view appears to be a bit skewed. You were dating a traditional woman, and you didnt' even know it.
Traditional femininity is boring. Chivalry is nothing I need. Gender roles are just a cage you can fall into - when you say "I have to do this because I have a vagina/penis" you are limiting yourself. I prefer people who say "I have to do this because I am a good human being." I've got a guy now who wants to do nice things for me, treat me with affection and regard, and have my back. I will do the same for him though, because I view him as a partner.
I'm not saying there's no difference between men and women. But I think when one tries to DEFINE those differences in some sort of binary framework, you end up placing limits on people, and that's just bull****.
Jane Austen believed women needed to become more masculine. Not that they should BECOME men, but that the personality traits that were prized in the men of her day should also have been prized in women as well. They shouldn't have been MASCULINE traits in her view, but HUMAN traits. She was no feminist by a long shot, though.
I once spent 3 weeks (and about 8 hours a day) swinging a sledgehammer and using a crowbar in 95 degree heat to clean up a mess made by my father, who was deathly ill. There were no men to help me. I was the only person my father had to take care of this massive project. My mother - a very traditionally feminine woman - looked at the workload that lay ahead of me and said "I don't understand how you're not suicidal." Seriously.
After something like that, chivalry really doesn't make much sense to me, nor do traditional gender roles. I got it done. On my own. Chivalry implies that a woman is somehow weaker or special simply because of her gender. I can't afford to be like that, nor would I want to be. My "kinda-boyfriend" treats me with a wholly accepting kindness and regard that just warms my heart, but I treat him the same way. I don't need a guy who opens doors or pays for dinner. I need a guy who has my back and knows what matters.
Maybe you're on to something. I've been told more than once , "What happened to your balls?" Should I want or not want my "balls" back? it's confusing?
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