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Really? So we're back to the same old tired argument that a woman is asking for it and men are such neanderthals that they simply lose control of themselves, and thus women are to blame?
Not in my opinion. I'm not blaming anyone or saying anyone is asking for it. All I'm saying is that is how it often works. It is what it is.
That is 100% true, but that also wasn't your question. Your question was what women consider harassment.
Also, I'm aware what reality is. I've been working since age 15 and have been getting hit on longer than that by significantly older men, as I'm sure many of us have. It happens everywhere. Mostly when I was a cashier, actually. That's the reality.
Also, in case you missed it, the POINT of this whole yesallwomen movement is to address things exactly like that bar scene. It doesn't matter where I am, no should mean no. I can't help that I enjoy craft beer that I can't get in my own home, but some men cannot control themselves or understand what no means.
This is akin to saying if a woman is dancing in a club and doesn't want you to grab her behind, she should have expected it because she put herself in a bad situation. Fact is, no still means no, regardless of where someone is.
I agree it's sadly common to not listen to a woman in certain situations, however, again, that is the point of this whole movement.
I agree completely. I'm glad #Yesallwomen is happening.
What makes this forum so unique form all other forums on the internet is that almost every topic becomes extremely over-complicated.
The answer is simple. There is no difference between attention and harassment in the action itself, but only in woman's assessment, interpretation and judgement of such action. A two-second stare or an accidental brush-up on the subway from a homeless guy is harassment, but a Rolex-clad arm around a woman's shoulder from a young good looking guy in a bar can trigger the "I like a man who goes after what he wants" line of thinking among many women.
I am baffled that a intelligent adult human being cant tell the difference between civility and harassment. I can understand if a person is a bit intoxicated but otherwise it seems pretty obvious.
Because I'm socially unintelligent.
I think in most situations it is obvious what is rude. But sometimes I wonder based on language like what's on yesallwomen if people would be offended just by being looked at briefly and smiled at, or talked to when she didn't want someone to even smile and say hello.
You know the difference....one is when you don't like the guy and the other is when you do like the guy.
Obviously there are things a significant other can say/do that others can't. But harrassment should be harrassment whether the guy is attractive and charming or ugly and awkward.
The answer is simple. There is no difference between attention and harassment in the action itself, but only in woman's assessment, interpretation and judgement of such action. A two-second stare or an accidental brush-up on the subway from a homeless guy is harassment, but a Rolex-clad arm around a woman's shoulder from a young good looking guy in a bar can trigger the "I like a man who goes after what he wants" line of thinking among many women.
This is 100% rubbish. It is pure PUA-type thinking.
I take the subway to work every single day. I have never heard any woman accuse any man who accidentally brushed up against her of harassment. And accidental brush ups like this happen constantly throughout the day. If what you say were true, the mayor's office would be deluged with complaints from women about harassment on the subway. It isn't.
It is also preposterous to say that any guy wearing a Rolex (or any other trapping of wealth) can put his arm around a woman he doesn't know and expect a warm response. That is laughably stupid. Honestly, I don't know what planet some people are living on...
Really? So we're back to the same old tired argument that a woman is asking for it and men are such neanderthals that they simply lose control of themselves, and thus women are to blame?
Men are disrespecting themselves when they make that argument.
I'm not sure how the situation can be changed, because some men (the ones davenz is describing) "will be men" a.k.a. *******s/neanderthals/disrespectful creeps. How does society change the behavior of such men?
At it's very core, attention becomes harassment when the person getting the attention asks the other to stop and that person does not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by va_bank
What makes this forum so unique form all other forums on the internet is that almost every topic becomes extremely over-complicated.
The answer is simple. There is no difference between attention and harassment in the action itself, but only in woman's assessment, interpretation and judgement of such action. A two-second stare or an accidental brush-up on the subway from a homeless guy is harassment, but a Rolex-clad arm around a woman's shoulder from a young good looking guy in a bar can trigger the "I like a man who goes after what he wants" line of thinking among many women.
The difference really is, is the attention one-way? Anyone can tell when attention is one way (except sometimes the person giving the attention). If the contact was not invited or accepted. It is one-sided because only one of the people in the situation wants to be in that situation. A lot of times outsiders can tell this too (sometimes it seems like the person giving is the only one who can tell). And no, someone glancing at you or accidentally bumping into you isn't harassment--talk about hyperbole. And just because you waste money on watches doesn't mean you can just put your arm around any women any time .
It also makes an important point: the line between attention and harassment is not nearly so fine as many people pretend it is. Obtaining someone's phone number without their permission and calling them at home is not subtle. It is pretty blatant.
But there are other subtle acts that more sensitive women might consider harrassment but others consider attention.
How many glances is too many? How many respectful words to a stranger is too many?
That example was obvious (and a horrible invasion of privacy), but I'm confident there are less obvious examples.
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