Ghosting vs. Thanks but No Thanks (male, kid, daughter, legal)

[timberline742]

Originally Posted by Runninglikethieves

Thanks guys! I think this is lame too. I don't completely understand why girls give you their number and then never reply when you text or call. Cause they obviously don't have the spine to not give you their number at all in the first place.

I do. It's easier. There are far too many dudes that are blankety blanks when getting rejected so just give them a number and have them go away. They're avoiding potential conflict.

[49erfan916]

Originally Posted by JerZ

Let me try to explain.

Believe it or not, based on how crass some girls can be, LOL (I was capable of this too, trust me...and still am...but only under certain circumstances), young girls are brought up MUCH MORE SO than boys to not hurt feelings, to not speak out, to not make demands. Girls do indeed do these things - speak out, make demands, refuse to soften the blow - and over and over again the wrath of the Titans is brought down on them from all factions. They hear it from parents, other people's parents...teachers...sometimes, strangers in public; as they get older, from their girlfriends. "Don't SAY that." And guilt is heaped: "Did you see how you made that girl/boy CRY [by saying something honest]?"

Boys get this far less than girls do. Boys are "supposed" to speak out, to be a bit coarser, to "tell it like it is," not to "beat around the bush" which would be considered wimpy and weak.

In addition, girls quickly realize that the boys are bigger than they are (after a certain point, anyway) and there's an intimidation factor. Girls fear being towered over, being yelled at and so on by an angry boy. At least to an extent most of us do. Let's face it, most of us are just coming out of the boy pulling the hair, jeering, or pushing of the girl off the swing onto her face to show he "likes" her stage when we first begin something close to actual dating. That's really under the surface and so too is physical size...loudness...aggression. When it comes to turning a boy (and then a man) down,we fear if we "say it wrong" or "say what they boy doesn't want to hear," he'll be mad and then who knows what will happen. It may be a subconscious fear or a conscious one - that depends upon a lot of factors. Some men literally do seem threatening. Others do not.

It is simply scary.

So combine all that conditioning and what you have is: No, it's not okay to JUST SAY NO. This is in direct contrast for those of us who grew up years ago, to the current DO just say no. It is a direct nailing to the wall of what we literally cut our teeth on, feelings, fears and conditioning that run really, really, really deep. But let's be honest. For all the "girl power" you see today, you still see subtle conditioning of girls to not be as loud, not be as brash, not be as outspoken, not to (oh God forbid) hurt feelings. That may be why some women can seem to hurt SO deep. When we finally do turn it around, we don't know HOW to do it, and it's too harsh.

This is a lot of generalization but I'll bet a good few women on here can relate.

Why did that girl give you her number although she never wanted you to call her? Because it got rid of you fast WITHOUT you being angry, possibly raising your voice, possibly shaming her in public. She did what she felt she was "supposed" to do while also ultimately protecting herself.

While I appreciate your explanation, and we all do respect when I say this, but this is bat **** crazy.
But I am also a male so I don't have your POV. But it all relates to one thing. Going ghost is easier and less of a hassle than being honest.

[Runninglikethieves]

Originally Posted by timberline742

I do. It's easier. There are far too many dudes that are blankety blanks when getting rejected so just give them a number and have them go away. They're avoiding potential conflict.

I understand maybe why they'd give a number, but I can't figure out why they give them their actual number and not a fake and made up one. Maybe since they can't rattle off a number they don't know with so little ease? Or if they're asked to repeat it again, they won't give the same numbers because it's a fake and made up number? Haha.

[RbccL]

Originally Posted by 49erfan916

While I appreciate your explanation, and we all do respect when I say this, but this is bat **** crazy.
But I am also a male so I don't have your POV. But it all relates to one thing. Going ghost is easier and less of a hassle than being honest.

Yes. Everyone's honest to the point that it benefits them. Maybe someone is asking you out and they are giving you the impression that they're single, but they're really not. Maybe you respond because you're getting a creepy vibe from them by saying you have a boyfriend, but you really don't. Who wants a confrontation or grand on the spot inquisition about "why, who, what, well what if, well how come you"...?

I'll always take- you think I'm crazy, over me doing something I don't want to do. After this many years of life, my opinions are formed by MY experiences.

[JerZ]

Originally Posted by 49erfan916

While I appreciate your explanation, and we all do respect when I say this, but this is bat **** crazy.
But I am also a male so I don't have your POV. But it all relates to one thing. Going ghost is easier and less of a hassle than being honest.

Why?

Would you REALLY rather we just "put it out there"?

All I hear from guys is that women are SO mean the way they just let you down so coldly with a "no." We're supposed to add on some sort of a reasonable explanation in order to be "allowed" to say no and then that explanation is judged, too, ESPECIALLY if it's not nicey-nice softey-soft ego-sparingly sweet.

Be honest. You'd REALLY rather hear "I'm sorry, but you don't look physically attractive to me and the way you sort of sniffle all the time with your allergies would drive me nuts after a while"? Or, "Let me just cut you off right there, don't bother striking up a conversation, I am certain I will never sleep with you"? (Those too get all kinds of grief, ESPECIALLY around here where the guys then turn around and squawk about how they "weren't even coming onto the woman in the first place", I mean howTH can we even win?)

Seems we women can't get it right no matter what...the bottom-line reason being: whichever way, we're saying no...and that's what bothers some men so much. Which means it boils down to: Tough. No matter what, SOME woman is going to reject you in a way you don't like. Deal. And, when it's no, it's no...whether you liked the style of the "no" or not (I'm sure you agree with this, 49ers).

Ghosting can be easier for a number of reasons, yes, and nobody is perfect and nobody "rejects" to everyone's satisfaction (because it IS rejection, which is unacceptable to some) so there's really no good answer to this question, IMO. Each person just must do his or her best and if someone takes offense, then s/he does.

[The Dissenter]

Originally Posted by Lou

Guys get mixed messages about these things. They're told to respect her when she says no, but in the next breath are told that she's playing hard-to-get and that he should prove himself by continuing to pursue her. What's more, some guys have gotten the girl that way. Be that as it may, I'd be done once I got an unequivocal no. If I'm mistaken about her playing hard-to-get and pursue her anyway, it's harassment. If I'm asking her out, it's because I think developing a relationship might be of mutual benefit to us. Risking harassment is the opposite of that.

To avoid catching a harassment case, if a women even mentions the word no, end the convo, end the pursuit then and there. As a male, you will not get the benefit of the doubt.

[JerZ]

Originally Posted by The Dissenter

To avoid catching a harassment case, if a women even mentions the word no, end the convo, end the pursuit then and there. As a male, you will not get the benefit of the doubt.

Should anyone be given the benefit of a doubt if someone has firmly said "no"?

If you said "no" to anyone, for any reason - a woman, a salesperson (after you already said "no", remember), something unsavory your boss wanted you to do (again...you said "no" once already, directly), a bum tapping your arm and requesting change a second and third time, anyone, any time...would you want to give the person the benefit of a doubt and allow him/her to continue?

In what way is this idea specifically a "woman" thing where "as a male" you're singled out somehow for poor treatment after the first "no" and then continuing on?

[The Dissenter]

Originally Posted by NewYorker11356

But you can just tell the person that you're not interested anymore without going into detail. There's a way to do both.

I honestly don't even want to open the door for potential drama. I'm not going to suffer a lot of drama for a person I've put very little actual time into.

[The Dissenter]

Originally Posted by JerZ

Should anyone be given the benefit of a doubt if someone has firmly said "no"?

If you said "no" to anyone, for any reason - a woman, a salesperson (after you already said "no", something unsavory your boss wanted you to do (again...you said "no" once already, directly), a bum tapping your arm and requesting change a second and third time, anyone, any time...would you want to give the person the benefit of a doubt and allow him/her to continue?

In what way is this idea specifically a "woman" thing where "as a male" you're singled out somehow for poor treatment after the first "no" and then continuing on?

As a male in a male vs female dispute, the male will always be seen as the person more capable of aggression. That is why I stress to guys take no as a final answer the first time and keep moving.

[JerZ]

Originally Posted by The Dissenter

As a male in a male vs female dispute, the male will always be seen as the person more capable of aggression. That is why I stress to guys take no as a final answer the first time and keep moving.

And I repeat, ANYONE pushing after a "no" of either gender, under any circumstance will be seen as the aggressor, so no IS no...no matter who is saying it, and to whom.

Please don't play the "males are singled out for ill treatment in this regard" card. That's just ridiculous.

By the way, what "dispute" are you talking about here? The man asks the woman out, she says no, he asks her out again a week later and she takes him to court and ruins his life or something? Have any examples to explain the specifics here?