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I was talking about how many young women these days are. Women in their 20s and 30s. I'm not entirely sure how women in their 50s and 60s are, and how they display their physical, sexual interest in men, since I'm not interested in dating or in hooking-up with women who could be my biological mothers.
I'll leave that to the men who are in that same age group. I take it you are part of that age group, since you seem to have never experienced what many, much younger men, have experienced, the things I've described. That's a shame. I feel like you missed out, having being born much earlier than me, and all that jazz. It happens.
Still, being physically active is good for anyone and everyone. It keeps one healthy, fit and attractive, and there's nothing superficial about wanting to stay attractive. I would also advice you to not smoke and to not drink. Lots of women are not attracted to men who partake in those habits, not to mention how unhealthy that stuff is.
No one is debating that living a healthy lifestyle is important - I am a poster child for it, no smoke, no drink liquor, consistent exercise, healthy diet, etc. - but the point is those things alone are not the key. Way too many guys focus on all THAT and devote very little, if any, time on what is MOST important, which is MENTAL health.
You can do all the gym-ratty stuff ever but if your MENTAL health is in dire need of a workout, you're not going to attract healthy quality people... and I would think most if not all people want someone who is mentally sound above all else.
As far as 'missing out', I've apparently 'missed out' on a lot of BS so I'd say I got a good deal in that regard.
In my mostly working class area it seems a lot of single women are attracted to men who smoke, dip, smoke weed (sometimes more), love their tattoos (often trashy) and like to get drunk regularly. I think they find it endearing because it excuses whatever bad habits they have themselves and within their families.
A lot of men and women pushing 35-40 seem very destructive in their behaviors…especially if their lives seem like a never ending grind of work/bills/work/bills while never really getting ahead financially/having nice things. I imagine having worked relative low paying jobs for 20 years, wearing your mind/body out and knowing you’ll likely be doing the same routine until 70 can give someone a F-it attitude. Many of those people seem mentally/physically/spiritually washed up by 45-50.
I wonder if all those rules and games and stuff are just people trying to feel a sense of control over something which is really unpredictable and uncontrollable. Ie human emotions and attraction and love.
How I see it is that people are at their most vulnerable during this time that they are seeking love, maybe getting feelings for someone, risking rejection, heartbreak, opening themselves up but also risking being deceived, lied to, used, by the one person they are supposed to be able to trust the most (their romantic partner).
Some people can handle the uncertainty better. But some people don't handle it very well. Makes them very anxious and so they look for ways to try to control the process. They try to make it formulaic. "Don't be too eager, she won't respect you." "Make her think other women are after you, it will make her like you more." Etc. All this to try to control someone else's feelings, which really is actually pretty unethical if you think about it. Its emotional manipulation.
I think both genders are guilty of this so I am not putting all the blame on one or the other.
Its the emotional manipulation aspect of it that is really veering into toxic, disordered behavior though. And that is what people are being told to do, as if its normal.
Usually it just backfires. If a guy tries to make me jealous with other women, that's just a turn off to me, and he can go be with those other women. Or if he negs me, well that just makes me feel bad and what's the point of being around someone who insults you or makes passive aggressive jabs? Most people enjoy being around people who make them feel good, not the opposite.
I have never dated women but I am sure there are frustrating things about it. I have read through most of this thread but the complaints that people seem to say the most is that women are picky or just date wealthy men and have unrealistic expectations. If wanting someone to treat you well is unrealistic and picky, then I think women should stand by that. It almost sounds like what they are really saying is "Let us be jerks and don't complain. Be a mindless sex doll with no opinions of your own. Lower the bar so low its underground."
But I don't know what they have actually experienced first hand to make them think those things. In my own experience dating, and having female friends and relatives who date and marry, all the women I know have very realistic expectations. In fact they often seem to put more into the relationship than they get.
But I think that is also how dissatisfaction and resentment can build over time until they fall out of love.
But these are just my own observations and experiences.
I guess everyone has different perspectives on it.
Think your being too kind to what it all seems to be becoming. Something so natural is just all being messed with so much that this is where it's ended up, and that's only the beginning- imagine in 20yrs time of more internet and yt's and books and coaches and date sites and on and on, people will be so messed up they'll probably have robots instead.
As for gold diggers or just wanting well off guys whatever they're saying l'd never dealt with 3/4 of anything they all talk about buttt, l went for a quality person and depth. But l do know of and l read that stuff a lot too that yeah there are plenty of women around like that your being too kind to them too. Would have never been interested in such shallowness myself l'd spot it on sight but stuff like that and them way over valuing themselves as compared to what they offered l remember was very very common, especially on date sites back then.
I was talking about how many young women these days are. Women in their 20s and 30s. I'm not entirely sure how women in their 50s and 60s are, and how they display their physical, sexual interest in men, since I'm not interested in dating or in hooking-up with women who could be my biological mothers.
I'll leave that to the men who are in that same age group. I take it you are part of that age group, since you seem to have never experienced what many, much younger men, have experienced, the things I've described. That's a shame. I feel like you missed out, having being born much earlier than me, and all that jazz. It happens.
Still, being physically active is good for anyone and everyone. It keeps one healthy, fit and attractive, and there's nothing superficial about wanting to stay attractive. I would also advice you to not smoke and to not drink. Lots of women are not attracted to men who partake in those habits, not to mention how unhealthy that stuff is. But you don't have to take that from me. You can ask women directly about it and learn that from them.
I don't know. The last two sound like a cesspool of VDs. I wouldn't want anything to do with a woman who openly advertised for sex with someone she had never even met.
I wonder if all those rules and games and stuff are just people trying to feel a sense of control over something which is really unpredictable and uncontrollable. Ie human emotions and attraction and love.
Some people can handle the uncertainty better. But some people don't handle it very well. Makes them very anxious and so they look for ways to try to control the process. They try to make it formulaic. "Don't be too eager, she won't respect you." "Make her think other women are after you, it will make her like you more." Etc. All this to try to control someone else's feelings, which really is actually pretty unethical if you think about it. Its emotional manipulation.
I think both genders are guilty of this so I am not putting all the blame on one or the other.
Its the emotional manipulation aspect of it that is really veering into toxic, disordered behavior though. And that is what people are being told to do, as if its normal.
Usually it just backfires. If a guy tries to make me jealous with other women, that's just a turn off to me, and he can go be with those other women. Or if he negs me, well that just makes me feel bad and what's the point of being around someone who insults you or makes passive aggressive jabs? Most people enjoy being around people who make them feel good, not the opposite.
I guess everyone has different perspectives on it.
This is a another big reason why I was never really comfortable with dating. It feels way too forced and phony. Because you literally cannot control the main part of what drives people to want a relationship with you: Attraction, chemistry, connection, and timing. After learning what manipulation and control looks like I kind of started to see a lot of what people were doing as to get dates as almost gross in a way. I've had so many people project their desires onto me under the guise of "trying to get me to open up and give them a shot," I just get annoyed by the whole thing. It's not genuine or organic to me. And eventually it just felt like everyone was trying to control my feelings. And what makes it worse is that people don't know they're being manipulative or they don't see it as a problem because our society has built a whole dating culture on being manipulative, which is wild to me. We've literally demonized being friends with people of the opposite sex with concepts like the "friendzone." When that is arguably one of the most natural ways for relationships form. It's nuts.
Yeah , it all seems as mad as hell people have just lost the plot if forums are anything to go by.
lt was nothing even remotely like any of the stuff in these threads in my world back when and l'm glad to say l can't even relate to any of it thank the Gods. Here when l was last single after marriage it was about 6yrs ago when l was ready, later 40s so women up to about that too. But in all these ways things were pretty much just as they always been before back in our 20s. There was none of this stuff l read in forums ld even know just wth. We'd both gotten older been through life and marriage but it was still l suppose you'd say old schoolish - hate damn labels, but something like that.
There were big differences in other ways of course, kids and ex's and life, but in meeting/looking for someone, ideals the way it works, mutually same as it'd always was really.
Women did have trust issues though was the only thing, bc they'd tell me, all any guys they had met just wanted was a bit of fun but none wanted a future or marriage.
l'd think most of these sort of threads are about long long term single and dating types with a long list of little relationships under their belts over yrs and yrs and yrs.
This is a another big reason why I was never really comfortable with dating. It feels way too forced and phony. Because you literally cannot control the main part of what drives people to want a relationship with you: Attraction, chemistry, connection, and timing. After learning what manipulation and control looks like I kind of started to see a lot of what people were doing as to get dates as almost gross in a way. I've had so many people project their desires onto me under the guise of "trying to get me to open up and give them a shot," I just get annoyed by the whole thing. It's not genuine or organic to me. And eventually it just felt like everyone was trying to control my feelings. And what makes it worse is that people don't know they're being manipulative or they don't see it as a problem because our society has built a whole dating culture on being manipulative, which is wild to me. We've literally demonized being friends with people of the opposite sex with concepts like the "friendzone." When that is arguably one of the most natural ways for relationships form. It's nuts.
Also, the term "FWB" having also interfered with developing relationships. As I have read thru, I am reminded of how things once were, that things have not changed much from earlier years, having actually worsened due to the ways in which people have attempted "to date" in later years. It also appears exhausting to even attempt trying. As said, it is not natural and even when having been more natural when meeting others, either sex would have their own ideas and approach to what was going on and having been influenced by societal inclinations, expectations or pressures.
As one ages, it appears that people become more entrenched in their ideas and ways, making it even more unlikely to meet others and have a connection when seeking companionship, let alone a true relationship. There is the instance of how some men, no matter how they may appear physically themselves, will still seek physical perfection and youtfulness in a female. It's not like a woman is interested in one wasting away either, but are more likely to look beneath the surface of a person for endearing and valuable qualities.
Let's face it, there can be a lot to sift through if wanting to determine compatibility, involving so much especially when older, being more difficult to become or remain involved. There needs to be the situation of friendly-familiarity developing without the direct intention of becoming involved. I would also rather be able to nip-in-the-bud anything about another that I would not relate to or tolerate, so it would be best to be able to determine this early on.
When otherwise having developed friendships with same-sex individuals, due to seeing regularly at work or when being neighbors, it becomes established to want to spend time together due to familiarity, similarities. In this instance, while those not being focused upon considering a physical relationship with, they more openly share thoughts, interests, preferences, concerns that strengthens their friendship.
The possibility of meeting another in order to develop a relationship with seems to have become more difficult and less common with some not bothering with, though some possibly having much to offer, being overlooked. I think there is less of a motivation for steady togetherness these days, having said I would prefer another maintaining their own residence, yet having the desire to spend time together.
Last edited by In2itive_1; 09-07-2022 at 03:00 AM..
Reason: Adjustment
People do seem to have a tendency to complicate something that is so natural, with expectations and stages of how and why a romantic relationship should happen, and how people should go about them, and that takes away a lot from the people who are looking for a connection.
I've never gone on a date. From what I've seen and from what I've heard, dates can be quite a hassle. Who pays, who drives there, where to go, what to eat, how much to tip the waiter, how long to stay there. When to invite someone for the second date. Whom has to be the one to invite because it's expected of them.
I hang out with women. I go to public parks with them and sit on the bench and just talk, for hours. Or I go window-shopping in the nearest mall with her. Or we go to a bookstore and we spend quality time browsing books and talking to each other about our taste in books. I also like to walk all over town with her, and just see the sights. You get a lot of good cardio out of it, and you get to see so much, lots of fun.
If there's mutual chemistry, we go to a love hotel and we hook-up. Depending on how things go, if we enjoyed what happened, we meet again. And we repeat what we did last time we were together. After some time of replaying this scenario, we either decide to not see each other again, for whatever reason it is, or we begin a romantic relationship.
I like to keep things simple and I detest drama, so this works out for both of us.
True, I do value beauty and youthfulness quite highly in women, just like women truly value masculinity and manhood in men quite a fair deal.
Wide shoulders and big, defined biceps go a long way with many, many women, and what woman doesn't enjoy being in the presence of a man who can protect her if the need for that is there. Especially when she's so slim and slender and dainty and feminine.
I put a lot more effort into gaining the physical attention of beautiful women, than I do to women who don't appeal to my senses, like how back in college in my very first day as soon as I saw this gorgeous blonde I instantly approached her despite her being crowded by her high school friends who enrolled in the same college, and I straight up asked her out despite the fact that it was the first time I had ever laid eyes on her.
Or how I walked into a classroom filled with hundreds of students and straight up asked for this girl's phone number, with the teacher eyes and with everyone's eyes on me.
Later on, when I hooked-up with these girls, they told me that what attracted them to me was how bold I was and how unafraid I was of being rejected. One of those girls had never had a boyfriend and she had never been with a guy because nearly every guy just stared at her, never approached, and when she asked a guy out, he'd just think she was playing a prank on him, because it was impossible for someone that attractive to make the first move, eh?
Yes, that is true. Unless a woman is gorgeous and slender, I'm not really going to bother, but that's just how it is.
Anyway, people just complicate something that is so natural.
Men, take care of your teeth, hairline, skin, clothes, and develop a big, masculine physique, and you will do just fine with the women you want to do fine with, and concentrate on approaching the women who are visibly attracted to you, don't just go around approaching every woman you find to be attractive, sheez.
To all who find this song and dance difficult, please remember none of it is compulsory. Despite the messages movies, TV and pop culture suffocate us with, not everybody wants or needs to find someone or make a connection. If it doesn’t come easily or naturally and causes you stress, why do it?
To all who find this song and dance difficult, please remember none of it is compulsory. Despite the messages movies, TV and pop culture suffocate us with, not everybody wants or needs to find someone or make a connection. If it doesn’t come easily or naturally and causes you stress, why do it?
I disagree.
I'm a normal person, average height, there is nothing I can do outside of going to the gym or making more money that's going to make me more attractive. I cannot make myself 6'2", give myself a chiseled jawline, etc. I work with a few men who I could easily "compete with" but I also work with other men who I would have no chance against if we were pursing the same woman. I'm talking about guys who could be male fitness models or NBA players.
So what is my solution: travel. I cannot change the western expectations of male attractiveness but I can travel to places where those standards don't apply or women don't care about them. My ex-wife was a 6'0" Romanian, she did not care that she was taller than me. As an example.
I do not believe that you should be single or lonely if you don't want to be. I believed that you can use your resources to find people or a place that will accept you for what you can control. Maybe having a spouse is out of the question for some, but certainly not having a lifelong companion or partner.
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