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No. The marriage was supposed to be but the reality she was not up to equal effort in our marriage... We had a long engagement to plan it out. She skirted that knowing very well that the husband will step up because it is expected.
From my many dates, most women are not. Like the many dates I've been on with modern women, most with jobs and careers STILL expect the man to pay the expenses; not the option (which they offer) but they still expect. They are a modern woman expected to have the freedom to pursue their own careers and such but still expect the man to be the breadwinner.
How many women lose access to their children, home, and finances when their husband initiates the divorce? How many men generally stick it out (a lot)? Are the expectations resting on the women's shoulders to provide for their family financially not just the opportunity to do so?
Its odd that over 70% of mothers work but still expect their husband to be the breadwinner. If I had a breadwinner I would not be getting up at the butt crack of dawn and going to work.
How my men lose access to their children, home and finances?
How many men want and ask for custody of their children?
Sorry, but that home is split. While she may live in it with the children, she is paying half the cost (bought out his equity, or traded child support or alimony for the equity. And alimony or spousal is nonexistent if both spouses have worked earning a similar income. Not sure why anyone thinks both parents should not be responsible for the financial support of their children.
If you are encountering lots of women who assume/expect you'll pay, there might be something about those women. And it could be a question of what women you realistically feel you've got a shot with, some kind of "savior" mentality, or even what quality of women are on dating apps in some given region. But I promise you, plenty of women will make a very genuine effort to pay our own way on a date. I won't insist to the extent of having some sort of a shouty argument with a man who is bound and determined to get the check, but I'd rather pay my own way. And I've also paid the way for men, especially if I invited them to go somewhere I knew they couldn't easily afford. I would make it clear before the date, though.
BINGO!
There are plenty of women who will offer to pay for dates and those are the women that you should be dating and you should take up their offer to pay when women offer.
Once women are financially established, they want to pay because these women don't want to be financially obligated to a man.
Directionally what you are looking for is that over the course of the dating process, this woman should be getting more and more emotionally invested in this relationship. Part of that is she should be picking up her share of the financial cost of dating too.
I have paid for the first two or three dates, but after that, we should have gotten to the point where she is paying for every other date or there is some sort of agreement about how to split expenses that seems fair to both of us.
But if a woman isn't offering to cover her share after the third date, there won't be a fourth date.
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Originally Posted by usayit
In general, the ladies who approach me still are not offering even a drink, I end up paying for at least the next several dates. What a lot of ladies don't realize is that most guys actually don't mind paying for the dates (assuming reasonably within budget). What is important to guys is that they offer. The dating scene is very difficult for guys because it is always from the traditional perspective that the woman is his "guest" no matter who initiated it... it really doesn't fall under the whole "modern woman" notion even if they do claim to be independent, career-driven modern women... but things fall back to a traditional role when it is most convenient.
My point is that the circumstances you describe aren't gender specific today but what happens after is still specifically the role of a man. An investment of Time, Energy, and Attention with little reciprocation until several dates into it. I also do know a few of my friends will go on dates for a free affordable time on his dime (it can be a power trip for them)... I will stress that I don't believe this is common... but a woman can still pull it off today while a man cannot. As a bartender, it is kinda an old joke that a woman doesn't need money to have a good time here (a lot of older guy regulars looking for company). That joke didn't come from me but from a female bartender coworker.
The times where women actually asked me out, they also offered to pay. Here is the thing, women aren't confrontational. If they offer and you don't take them up on the offer to pay, they assume you prefer it that way or just don't care.
Be honest with yourself. You do care about the fact that you are paying for all of these dates and kind of resent the fact that you're paying for them. So start taking up women's offers to pay and get rid of your resentment. You paying for all of your dates and you refusing women's offer to pay is a choice you made yourself. Additionally when you start to feel you are being expected to pay or do more than you feel comfortable doing, listen to that voice and don't do it.
No one can take advantage of you unless you allow them to.
As long as everyone can agree that the man is at fault for 100% of the divorces regardless of who files, the actual filing percentages are just a side note.
Most divorces are no fault divorces. It is usually years of the marriage deteriorating, suppressed frustrations, growing apart then just giving up.
Most people dont have to have someone else to blame for everything that happens in life.
As long as everyone can agree that the man is at fault for 100% of the divorces regardless of who files, the actual filing percentages are just a side note.
If you are treating all of your interactions with women as adversarial, you are self sabotaging your chances to have any type of healthy relationship with women.
Men and women are both looking for a partner that they feel has there back, but just as you are acutely aware of women who have issues with men, women are acutely aware of men who have issues with men. No one wants to date someone who they think is their adversary in a gender war.
I spent my first week outside of my home locked in a hotel room with no idea what to do.... no support structure. She didn't reach out to me and didn't have someone check on me. It wasn't until the good graces of a friend I barely knew from my work as a bartender finally knocked on my door... It was a small gesture of homemade soup.. but at that moment it meant the world to me.
Quick question. Did you chose to leave your house without having a plan as to where to move and an apartment? As far as I know, no matter what your wife might claim, she has no right to ask you to leave the house you either own or co-own right away when you have no other living arrangements. Unless of course there is some domestic violence and she felt threatened. Which I am sure was not the case...
I of course don't have all the details but you should've been able to stay in your house for at least 1 - 2 months after she asked for separation looking for an apartment...
No, you are not a mind reader, and neither is she. And maybe she needs to get her head clear on that and not assume she knows how you might react to something she might say, I don't know. I just wonder why she is "listening" but not talking. It isn't a good sign.
no, it is not healthy and I wish / home she would pursue therapy. At this time, I don't think she is. but I know she did at one point.... if you recall, she is the child of a verbally abusive father. It is the reason why we lived together so she didn't have to go home. Her mother knew but her mother advised us to not tell him. Her mother had already left him and ended up with another woman (you recall a thread that I wondered if she was actually a lesbian).
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It really sounds to me like the two of you are stuck in quite a bad situation. Both are extremely unhappy in this marriage and this life...but you are OK to keep trudging on like this, and she does not want to. Again, I won't believe without hearing her side, that she had no real reason for wanting you out of the house when she did that.
I won't know either as she isn't communicating. I have to say when she suggested that I move back in I was glad. I expressed that to her. We have been very careful to try to keep this from the children (although it is impossible to do so completely). Unfortunately, the elder son does remember when his mommy asked his daddy to leave and not come back until "requested". The twins have always known daddy to be either sleeping on the couch or now in his basement room.
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And most of the time, when parents split up, decisions are made that have more to do with what's logistically possible with the resources at hand for the best interest of the kids. The kids' needs are the most important factor. I've seen it go various different ways, but it is FAR from always just the man getting booted out of the house.
The issue I had was that she didn't really make an effort to make time for me to spend time with my kids when l lived outside the home. So I guess that bit makes me feel that in a divorce, she wouldn't really make it any easier logistically either. Her mother pulled me aside one time and told me she wasn't happy about that... she felt that I should have whatever time I wanted with the children. I thanked her for saying that but she really didn't do much else. I guess she didn't want to get involved. I do get along with her mother and her partner.
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In my divorce, initially we had it so I'd take one kid and the other stayed with my ex in the house. I did not want the house, my work had relocated the office to the other side of town. The kid who went with me was in constant conflict with his father and needed to be away for his own safety. The other one was 15 and wanted to stay because he didn't want to be parted from his girlfriend in a new school. This allowed us to structure the divorce on paper so that no one had any legal support obligation, which is what I wanted. Despite the awfulness, we could still talk and make agreements to contribute however we could when a problem arose that needed a solution. We still can. Our kids are now young adults and the one who stayed behind with my ex, has refused to speak to him for years.
That is unfortunate. In our situation, all three are close to both of us. The elder son is a wonderful big brother to his little twin brothers. As I type this, I hear him jamming on the guitar upstairs (right above my desk). OMG... what a wonderful sound! I could never see myself getting in the way of my children and their mother.
I hesitate to flat-out say she is selfish and such... I don't hate her... I'm just very hurt. Remember I mentioned the one and only person who came to check on me at the hotel.. delivered soup? If you recall she is the same friend I recently lost due to alcoholism and liver failure. For many years, she was the only person who truly understood our family situation. I guess I'm still also getting over that loss in support. It has been just about 6 months since I last spoke to her.. I have no idea if she is dead or alive.
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I mean, from where I sit, I'm over here considering certain things you have told us about company you keep and what an open mind you have about certain kinds of people, which is all well and good but then you say you've been married 22 years with twins who were sick a lot, non stop hustle with two jobs and all this. When did you have the time to be such good friends to prostitutes or strippers or whatever that was, I wonder? I mean...there's just more to your story. But it's not my business. Like I said, you ain't gotta come clean to anybody here about anything at all, but I think it might help you in life to be honest with yourself and I've got a sense that there's some BS'ing going on here.
Honestly, I don't know.
I've always led a busy life in part because being alone often requires me to address my inner thoughts and it gets tiresome. I sleep about 3-4 hours a day and crash once in a while to sleep for a long time. Some of the jobs I've worked placed me in the middle of the same crowd, shift-based, and nights; bartending and bouncing for example. If you haven't put two and two together, the place I worked was frequented by prostitutes looking for Johns. So a lot of my friends would hang out with me there. It is within the vicinity of several clubs and strip joints (gogos here). You have to also understand there is no workday and weekend day. It is all the same when you work whenever you want to. I currently work 1 job and I have a lot of flexibility when I work... but the job is very stressful with a high workload / long hours. I pretty much work fewer hours per day and spread as much as I can through the entire week.
My wife a while back was actually hanging out with me in the same group. The fact that she blended into a crowd that is different from herself was very impressive to me.
Fortunately, the twin's condition has vastly improved so they are not as demanding as they used to be. Their mother insists that bedtime is strictly at 8 p.m (sometimes 9 for soccer). That's just when my "day" is beginning.... I guess I lead basically two lives.
Time to finish up my work (primary one)... make dinner... and get ready to head out for the night.. Got a date to go bowling for a few hours and then close/clean bar.
Be honest with yourself. You do care about the fact that you are paying for all of these dates and kind of resent the fact that you're paying for them. So start taking up women's offers to pay and get rid of your resentment. You paying for all of your dates and you refusing women's offer to pay is a choice you made yourself. Additionally when you start to feel you are being expected to pay or do more than you feel comfortable doing, listen to that voice and don't do it.
No one can take advantage of you unless you allow them to.
No, I don't resent them because, for the most part, I assume they are expecting traditional roles when the man pays for the dates. I'm old enough to be from that generation. So its no different than way back when. What I do know is that some of the women I've dated talk about being a "modern" woman because they have careers and such... but I kinda look at it as hypocrisy when they don't even offer even if they initiated. I definitely keep that thought to myself tho...
It depends.... If I feel she is taking advantage of me, I stop it pretty quickly. Others it depends how I feel about them... especially when I know they don't have a lot of disposable income. My bowling partner tonight for example is the single mother struggling financially who offered to help me out by buying me groceries (with EBT/Snap benefits) for my kids. It was her way of contributing back to the expenses of our dates. That was one of the nicest gestures any lady has offered to me. So I never expect her to pay for anything while we are hanging out or on dates. I definitely don't feel like she is taking advantage of me.
Quick question. Did you chose to leave your house without having a plan as to where to move and an apartment? As far as I know, no matter what your wife might claim, she has no right to ask you to leave the house you either own or co-own right away when you have no other living arrangements. Unless of course there is some domestic violence and she felt threatened. Which I am sure was not the case...
I of course don't have all the details but you should've been able to stay in your house for at least 1 - 2 months after she asked for separation looking for an apartment...
Yes.. that is what happened and it happened quickly. Someone mentioned to me long after that was a bad decision on my part but to tell you the truth I wasn't thinking clearly. Now I know.
As long as people continue to see it as one gender vs the other, antagonists and natural enemies rather than teammates and fellow human beings with human problems, divorces will continue to happen.
Fault doesn't matter.
Focusing on fault rather than responsibility (as in, you can control yourself, and be responsible for what you are able to be responsible for...but fault and blame is futile because you can't control another person)...that way lies bitterness and misery and no solutions for anyone.
In other words...do you want to be happy, or do you want to be right? One cannot always be both.
This applies far more to society generally, rather than just to divorce cases. IMOHO.
This applies far more to society generally, rather than just to divorce cases. IMOHO.
True. I did not word that the best.
Just.
It's not good. Does not lead anybody to any good place.
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